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Gratuitous grandious generalization

It's my sense that liberal propoganda is rampant in higher education and that it takes independent thinking and analysis to overcome it.

And yet you present no evidence for your opposite claims.
Statistically, you're more likely to be a Republican and/or conservative if you're:
a.. a man b.. a college graduate c.. in the top income bracket d.. an evangelical Christian e.. living in a rural area f.. a Thinker-Sensor Statistically, you're more likely to be a Democrat and/or liberal if you're:
a.. a woman b.. a senior citizen c.. gay d.. nonwhite e.. living in an urban area f.. a Feeler-Intuitor Here are the references used for the list above and other resources for further reading on this subject.
The Harris Poll: Party Affiliation Results of year 2000 survey of 13,000 adults.
2000 Exit Polling Demographic data from exit polling during the 2000 elections.
Republican Voting Trends Regression analysis.
U.S. Demographics Major demographic groupings in the United States.
Party Negativity or Neutrality? Research paper analyzes long-term trends in party alignment.
An Alternative Analysis of Mass Belief Systems: Liberal, Conservative, Populist, and Libertarian Policy analysis from the Cato Institute.
The Party of the Rich? Commentary from Dean Esmay.
Preserve, Protect, Defend Commentary from Michael Spencer: "Republicans seek to preserve what is essential about American life, while Democrats seek to replace what is essential with their own liberal brand of tyranny. There are many, many other differences, but this is the persuasive one."
Communication Styles and the Florida Ballot Flap Scott Hogenson links politics and the Myers-Briggs analysis of personality and communication styles.
The Gender Gap's Back Two factors explain almost all of the gender gap in presidential politics.
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Not a gratuitous but perhaps a grandiose generalization, yet certainly one more thoroughly grounded in reality than your friend's (or was it your own?) assertion. (Omitting references to reality being a unnecessary and misleading generalization of my generalization.)
Take the set of people with over 6 figure earnings as photographed in the March 14, 2004 Parade Magazine:
WM Donald Trump, Real estate mogul, $100 mil WM Rush Limbaugh, Radio host, $32 mil WF Judy Sheindlin, TV Judge, $25 mil BF Halle Berry, Actress, $15 mil BM Kobe Bryant, Pro Basketball player, $13.5 mil WF Marilyn Monroe, screen legend, $8 mil <- DEAD WF Annika Sorenstam, Pro golfer, $5.5 mil WM Bud Selig, Baseball commissioner, $5 mil WM Simon Cowell, record producer, $2.3 mil WF Hilary Duff, actress/singer, $2+ mill ** Funny Cide, Thoroughbred, $2 mil <- A HORSE, FEEL FREE TO OMIT WM Pete Rose, (listed as) Author, $1 mil WF Anna Nicole Smith, Reality-TV star, $1 mil WM Ronald Pierce, Harness race driver, $495,000
< $400K roughly in order of appearance WM Dick Cheney, VP, 198.600 WF Ruth Bader Ginsburg, SCJ, 190,100 ?F Avier Gaitan, Attorney, $105,500 AM Kent Lue, Accounting manager, $100,300 AF Marlyn Acuram, Home-care provider, $100,000 WM Scott Stanley, Rx drug salesman, $155,000 WM J. Tucker Beck, Real estate agent, $103,100 ?M Michael K. Powell, Chairman, FCC, $142.500 <- Collin Powell's kid WM Mark Bozich, Account executive, $150,000 WM Shawn Hencye, Private Investigator, $210,000 WM Walter Nullet, Ship's captain, $169,000 WM Tim Lockwood, Sales Manager, $180,000 WM Panfilo Contreras, Director, nonprofit, $103,000 BF Genevia G. Fulbright, CPA, $100,000 BM Ron Sims, County Executive, $155,000 WF Lisa Cariquist, Office space planner, $110,000 BM Jimmie Dotson, Police Chief, $124,100 BM Kenneth Ellerbe, Deputy fire chief, $102,000
Being a touchy-feely liberal (or so the statistics you provided below would indictate), I will give you my impression of the above lists. It is a small, reasonably unbiased sample space of 31 high income earners.
I admit there is direct data on neither political affilation nor education level. [I provide the race and sex since you might think it is relevant, given the statistics you cite below. I omitted the ages and locations.] However, it is my *sense* that the following generalizations (*) can be inferred:
* The highest earning people on the list do not necessarily have higher "education" than those lower. Therefore income does not scale proportionally with education.
* The majority of the people on the list, are on the list because they are either highly skilled (read: trained, not educated) at what they do or got the job because of "internal connections". (If not, then how are applicants differentiated?)
# At lower skill levels, selection of individuals for employment from a pool of equally skilled individuals is resolved by considering who the applicant knows or what additional effort the applicant is willing to accept. (If not, then how are applicants differentiated?) During employment, selected persons are able to accelerate their skill level, even quickly surpassing other applicants who previously may have been more qualified, resulting in higher training and higher income.
* The majority of the people on the list are conservatives (by polls, high income people are more likely to be conservatives) and not necessarily because, they believe or can explain or compare conservative philosophy in detail (having accepted training in lieu of education) but merely because it is convenient and loyal to be so.
# People who do not conform or are replaced and lose opportunities. (Rush Limbaugh axed by Disney/ESPN for Donovan McNabb remark. Bill Mahr (not on list) axed by Disney/ABC for anti-patriotic remarks.) Attempts to challenge the status quo can be critically disadvantangeous.
Certainly I make unsubstantiated and grandiose claims based on a limited sample space to contradict your friend's previous claim but they should be easy enough to refute if you are correct. Perhaps some industrious college educated thinker-sensor conservative would care to provide more data. You should be able to check political affliation on voter registrations and certainly the top list (above $400,000) should have public biographies with educational accomplishments.

Propaganda or open discussion? In "higher education", ideas are supposedly open to challenge, unlike in one sided presentations provided by perspective "news" programs, decrees from the government, or views distilled by religious or other special interest organizations. It's a wonder that liberal views are even given any credence in higher education if you claim that the majority of college educated persons are or turn conservative. In fact it is tactically unsound to target a comparatively minor population of supposedly free thinking persons when supposedly in a democracy, the power is wielded by the general populace, and it would be far more effective to generate "mob" support by inflaming popular opinion through mass media, which is what conservatives have traditionally done, and as you can see from the radio station announcement, liberals, for better or worse are jumping on the bandwagon.

I thought I'd give the person I'm responding to a chance to respond first. But if you insist are the any particular claims your are interested in that I haven't already answered in this reply?

That's all very well and not especially relevant.
In fact your example shows another point I made, that your generalizations appear plausible, but upon inspection aren't truly representative of reality, being true only in specific senses.
The chart certainly doesn't show that one's conservative (or non-liberal) affinity increases as one's education level increases. It does show that there were more conservatives with college degrees than liberals with college degrees. It does not show that getting a higher degree increases the likelihood of turning or being a conservative, as, assuming a representative sample space, the data is severely biased towards undergraduate degrees. You might as well say that conservative affinity isn't a result of going to college, but a result of being wealthy and being able to pay for college.
The relation to the claim is so tenuous, I wonder if you wrote it and the following bibliography yourself, or if it's part of some "standard" reply that you get at Republican camp.

I'd like to know what exactly you in particular consider essential about American life.

Other than citing sources, is there any specific point you'd like to make?
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People throw a lot of statistics around to make their point. Here is a breakdown by the National Review (a very conservative publication) of the voters in the 2000 election: http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1282/24_52/68163636/p1/article.jhtml I have put the words from the National Review article in quotation marks to distinguish them from my comments, and to show their take on the statistics they gathered.
"The voters who graduated from college went better (51) for the GOP than for the Democrats (45) -3 went to Nader."
We'll have to add Nader's voters to the Democrats as liberal, so apparently 48+% of college graduates are liberals - not exactly a knockout for those conservatives who want to prove that most people with higher-education are conservative.
"What irritates is that those who go on to postgraduate education head out in the wrong direction (52-44)." (Meaning that they voted for Gore, not Bush.) Whoops - this seems to directly contradict what the poster below implies about education and political philosophy. Apparently, the MORE educated you are, the more likely you are to have a liberal political philosophy.
"because voters who didn't even graduate from high school are stoutly (59-39)Democratic." This would support the view that the Democratic party has traditionally been supportive of laborers and minorities, who, as a rule, have attained fewer years of higher education.
"When you reach incomes over $50,000, the Republicans are strong (52), but not overwhelming. And that margin of 52 climbs a mere two points for voters who make over $100,000. Forty-three percent of the very affluent voted Democratic, which raises the question: If you're so rich, why aren't you smart?"
Makes one wonder who's defining "smart" and what the criteria are for making that determination...... It also makes one wonder if we should identify those VERY AFFLUENT Democrats (43% of the VERY AFFLUENT voting block) with the statement that "liberalism is a refuge for those living in envy of the accomplishments of others". I wouldn't say that the case is ironclad, would you?

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liberalism is a sweeping generalization, but to completely discount it might be as bad.
The more important question is "What works?". It may be interesting to argue why certain groups believe one set of ideals over another, or vote one party into office; but has a nation ever taxed itself into prosperity?
...or to break it down.
Corruption in politics:
Should we eliminate special rights and privileges for elected or appointed government officials?
Should we revise any law or regulation that exempts the government or its officials from compliance?
Should we end government funding of any political party or candidate?
Should we revise state and federal laws to enable all candidates for elective office to be included on election ballots?
Crime:
Should we respect the victim's rights and make criminals pay full restitution?
Should we hold all criminals responsible for their actions.?
Should we double the police resources available for crime prevention without any additional government spending?
Should we reduce the number of criminals at large on our streets?
Should we defend the most effective crime deterrent available, the private ownership of guns.?
Should we create jobs, end welfare dependence, and improve education?
Unemployment:
Should we stop taking money consumers and businesses would otherwise use to purchase goods and services?
Should we stop taking money individuals and companies would otherwise use for investment?
Should we stop subsidizing foreign governments, foreign businesses, and foreign citizens?
Should we stop financing our massive budget deficit with borrowed money that otherwise could be used for business expansion and job creation?
Should we stop smothering workers, business people, and investors with endless regulations and bloated bureaucracy?
Should we stop restricting commerce and trade?
Education:
Should we support a true market in education -- one in which parents and students would not be stuck with a bad local school, because they could choose another?
Should we implement measures such as tax credits so that parents will have the financial ability to choose among schools?
Should we provide financial incentives for businesses to help fund schools and for individuals to support students other than their own children?
Should we eliminate the U.S. Department of Education, which spends billions on education and educates no one?
Health care and costs:
Should we establish medical savings accounts, strengthening the role of the individual health care consumer?
Should all health care expenditures should be 100% tax deductible?
Should we deregulate the health care industry? ...eliminating mandated benefits, repealing Certificate-of-Need program, and expanding the scope of practice for non-physician health professionals.
Should we replace the FDA?
Should we privatize Medicare and Medicaid?
I better knock it off. Time for work.
PS: Liberals tend to be top posters.
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that's wrong with public education. It would certainly help if more conservatives became teachers and brought their insights into improving public education from the front line, particularly considering all the money lavished by the public on teacher salaries. You must be smiling as you take your pay check to the bank and plan your early retirement. It certainly would help if conservatives funded scholarship for conservative students interested in reforming public education. I'm sure conservatives would receive far more applicants for these educational scholarship candidates than they could fund.
I have to disagree with you about the U.S. Department of Education. I definitely think the U.S. Department of Education is doing it's job because their head did call the NEA, your union, an agent of terrorism. What observation could be more profound? You must have missed that speech at the Republican Governors' Convention.
You also missed mentioning vouchers for private academies. Why shouldn't parents be able to take the education dollars spent on their children in public schools and spend this money on schools where funds aren't wasted on special education and special need students? Private schools can spend all their money on education and not have to waste it on these high cost students whom they aren't required to admit. Private academies can also expel troublemakers, which improves the learning environment. After all, the purpose of education is to educate, not baby-sit.
You really did inform everyone about the best of the conservative agenda for education. Thanks for your insight.
John
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sigh... undergraduate education is more memorization than thinking. grad school demands critical thinking skills. Ingrid

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net / www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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wrote:

What really matters is the correlation of IQ to political affiliation. Degrees may prove intelligence, but in many cases it only proves that your parents were wealthy enough to buy them for you.
No kidding conservatives are better educated. Degrees are expensive. Intelligence is innate.
--
John GOTTS < snipped-for-privacy@linuxsavvy.com> http://linuxsavvy.com/staff/jgotts

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My mother attended college at the age of 54 and paid for it, had a 4.0, was nominated Valedictorian and graduated, graduate school as Summa Cum Laude. (I may not have spelled things correctly.)
So, she is vastly a liberal, lives in New York, owns a home ON the water, and her back deck overhangs a wildlife preserve estuary where ospreys nest. She has money to spare and still works at the age of 70, full time. Her IQ is somewhere in the 150s, and she would vote for President Clinton again in a heartbeat, should he ever run again. As would I.
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On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:12:04 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@wi.rr.xx.com

Ingrid, would you just clarify for furrin readers what Americans mean by undergraduate education and grad school? Thanks
Janet
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after high school. undergraduate is the 4(+) years culminating in a bachelors degree. grad school is going for a masters or PhD. Ingrid

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net / www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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opined:

Not true. I'm a liberal, have an Expedition, a big expensive house, big pool and I don't have to work. Next.
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not that this is an important point or anything....but arguing from the one to the many doesn't hold up since he used the word likely.
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I understand he said "likely," but in the city where we live, 67% of the population has been to higher education, and 24% of graduates, attended graduate school and up. This, for the most part, a very liberal town. Our president is a big dumbo. He is declared to be a Harvard Business School graduate, but has failed in every business he operated. Including, IMO, our great nation. He came in when we were in the black, now we are in more debt than ever in the history of the nation.
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And Kerry has done _what_ successfully? Besides marrying rich women? By the way, don't forget he's my state's Junior Senator. I am a Republican, but I know what Ted Kennedy has done over time; he has quite a list of accomplishments, people he's helped, bills he's passed, projects he's got done for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. John Effin Kerry hasn't done a damned thing. No, I'm not happy with Bush, I'm definitely unhappy with Kerry. There isn't anyone running worth voting for.
--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
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Kerry wasnt my choice in the primaries. But the way it stands, ABB anybody but bush. Ingrid

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net / www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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I would rather see Al Sharpton be the president than that idiot who didn't answer one question last night without that dumb smirk on his face.
I never said Kerry was the answer, but certainly 4 more years with this administration and we will be a very broken nation, IMO. It's just an opinion.
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actually, the data is quite clear. the higher the level of education the better the development of critical thinking skills, the more progressive and liberal. The entire middle east is a classic example of the correlation between complete ignorance, poverty and religious fanaticism. We got our home grown crop of course. As a university professor my income is working class, but I am sure plenty of blue collar workers make more than I do, unionized ones much more. I am one of those lucky person getting paid for what I would do for free. Ingrid

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net / www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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I dont believe in giving people handouts. The majority of people on welfare are children. I want them to get everything they need to grow up to be people with good jobs. Poor nutrition early in life damages IQ, poor health care leads to chronic illness, poor schooling leads to unemployability. Poor PARENTING leads to a lack of discipline which leads to a life of chaos, so I dont believe in "welfare" to parents and children without quality control. I got a whole program in mind for putting women on welfare to work ... train them to be child care workers in child care facilities attached to grade schools as a start. The work, they get schooling, their kids benefit, other working women get cheap, good, safe child care. The majority of women on welfare are white and live in towns and rural areas. the average "time" on welfare is about 2 years. the average number of children is 2-3. most if not all of them are on welfare cause the fathers arent supporting their children. There are people who simply cannot work. Most of them are mentally ill and as a scientist with a genetics minor I will say that the literature indicates most of it is genetic and/or genetic predisposition, not their fault and most cannot yet be controlled with medications. I foresee they will be in the future and if diagnosed early enough and treated early enough all those people will be functional.
most of our tax money goes to the military. As anti-war as I am even I dont want to see that funded by charity. http://www.warresisters.org/piechart.htm Ingrid

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net / www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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snipped-for-privacy@wi.rr.xx.com wrote:

Can you cite a source for this? Of course not.
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On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:29:39 -0400, April <invalid> opined:

Well, let's see...this year alone 125 billion with a b dollars will be spent on Iraq. That's enough money to buy everyone in the nation all their prescription drugs, or feed everyone and give them all a check up and dental exam. But, we are busy nation building in a nation which hates us. Do I really have to cite this?
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