What is this weed and how do I kill it!!! ;^)

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This weed, which we call "The Tumor" (in your best Arnold Schwartzenager voice) is drivng us nuts. It comes on super fast, grows super fast and returns after we pull it out. Its got prickly edges. See phot link below.
Is there a chemical based weed killer that can take this out? Preen did nothing to it. This weed just laughed at Preen.
http://ucemergencymedicineorg.siteprotect.net/weed.jpg
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In article
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Looks like Thistle to me.
Use a hoe.
Bill
--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

Not all who wander are lost.
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I agree, use a hoe to scrape the top, often or whenever you see new leaves coming up. after a while the root is depleted and it will die. just never, ever let it go to seed!! and dont disturb the soil where these are found cause there are more seeds just waiting. Ingrid

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I murder the worst of them by digging REALLY deep around the root system, lifting the whole thing out, and shaking off the soil.
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lop them off before the stickers fully form and toss them in the creek... they grow along the creek banks behind my barn and some in my rock walls. I don't consider thistles as weeds when they grow where they're no bother.
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On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 08:25:55 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Look like wild lettuce to me. Lactuca something or other. It spreads by seed I think, so I doubt it's coming back - just new plants. Personally I like the plant - it grows tall with yellow flowers that open in the morning. If you pull it out, roots and all (easiest after a rain) and don't let plants go to seed you won't have it next year.
A chemical based weed killer is likely to take out all kinds of things besides the plant you don't want. Some of those things may be beneficial to you without your knowing.
Best to deal with specific problems specificly, imo.
hth,
Kate
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It's one of the thistle family and you'd need agricultural chemicals to kill it, BUT I'd advise you not to go there. In fact I'd advise you not to poison them at all - I'll explain why further on in the post.
Thistles are actually wonderful plants as they are 'deep miners'. What I mean by that is that they send their roots down waaaay deep and bring minerals up into the top soil. If you ever dig out a REALLY big thistle you will find that clinging right in close to the tap root are huge numbers of earth worms - far more worms that it would be reasonable to expect. the worms are obviously getting somethign from the roots and it's probably access to those minerals (somehow or other).
Thistles will continue to come up for many, many years even if you have never allowed them to go to seed. Their seeds seem to have viability for decades.
Given the growing pattern of the plants in your pic, I doubt very much that the plants you see are 'returning' from any root left in the soil (and they do do that if you just chip off the growing tip high on the tap root). What you have there are new plants and unless you poison your soil to such an extent that nothing else will grow, they will continue to emerge until the seed sources are exhausted. The best thing to do is to just do the 'normal' thing and that is to weed. They are very easily dealt with by weeding - just slide a long bladed hand trowel down the side of the tap root and lever - out in 2 seconds flat if you get then small. And even if they do grow huge, the flowers are always gorgeous and frequently the foliage is too depending on the variety of thistle.
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wrote:

This is a point too often not made and too often forgotten.
Thistles are good additions to the compost pile, because of this deep mining, provided they are nicked out before seeding.
Charlie
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On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:16:02 -0500, Charlie wrote:

Thistles smell good too, but I still think it's wild lettuce. I suppose one way to tell is if the OP screams when they step on it. :)
Kate
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Any plant which punctures my rawhide gloves is automatically an enemy. I don't care if it drops emeralds out of its flowers.
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On Apr 24, 7:36 pm, snipped-for-privacy@notme.com wrote:

Kate I agree that it is a Lactuca, or maybe a Sonchus, sow thistle. The leaves are immature and its difficult to tell the difference at this stage. I don't think the leaves are dentate or prickly enough to be a true thistle (Circium)
Doesn't mention flower color. Emilie NorCal
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On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:18:36 -0700 (PDT), mleblanca

Hey Emilie,
In TN, it's too early for the sow thistles and wild lettuce to bloom, but the 1 thistle I'm aware of in my yard is just days away from blooming.
To me, sow thistles are easier to mistake for milk or Canadian thistle in the early stages - both look dangerous but the sow thistle isn't. The wild lettuce, admittedly a favorite of mine, doesn't look threatening to me. (I harvest the leaves - they have a mild sedative effect.)
Kate
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wrote:

Sonchus oleraceus - L. Sow Thistle
Edibility Rating 2 (1-5) Medicinal Rating 2 (1-5)
Edible Uses Edible Parts: Leaves; Root; Stem. Edible Uses: Gum. Young leaves - raw or cooked[2, 4, 9, 13, 54]. This species has the nicest tasting leaves of the genus[153], they usually have a mild agreeable flavour[217] especially in the spring[K]. They can be added to salads, cooked like spinach or used in soups etc[183]. The leaves contain about 30 - 40mg of vitamin C per 100g[173], 1.2% protein, 0.3% fat, 2.4% carbohydrate, 1.2% ash[179]. A zero moisture analysis is also available[218]. It might be best, though it is not essential, to remove the marginal prickles[9]. Stems - cooked like asparagus or rhubarb[12]. They are best if the outer skin is removed first[183]. Young root - cooked[12]. They are woody and not very acceptable[144]. The milky sap has been used as a chewing gum by the Maoris of New Zealand[183].
Medicinal Uses Plants For A Future can not take any responsibility for any adverse effects from the use of plants. Always seek advice from a professional before using a plant medicinally. Cancer; Emmenagogue; Febrifuge; Hepatic; Hydrogogue; Poultice; Tonic; Warts. The plant is emmenagogue and hepatic[61, 257]. An infusion has been used to bring on a tardy menstruation and to treat diarrhoea[257]. The latex in the sap is used in the treatment of warts[218]. It is also said to have anticancer activity[218]. The stem juice is a powerful hydrogogue and cathartic, it should be used with great caution since it can cause colic and tenesmus[218]. The gum has been used as a cure for the opium habit[257]. The leaves are applied as a poultice to inflammatory swellings[4]. An infusion of the leaves and roots is febrifuge and tonic[240]. ------ http://www.pfaf.org/database/plants.php?Silybum+marianum
Silybum marianum - (L.)Gaertn. Milk Thistle
Edibility Rating 3 (1-5) Medicinal Rating 5 (1-5)
Edible Parts: Flowers; Leaves; Root; Stem. Edible Uses: Coffee; Oil. Root - raw or cooked[1, 2, 4, 52, 183]. A mild flavour and somewhat mucilaginous texture[K]. When boiled, the roots resemble salsify (Tragopogon hispanicus)[1, 4, 115]. Leaves - raw or cooked[1, 4, 5, 52, 89, 115]. The very sharp leaf-spines must be removed first[46, 183], which is quite a fiddly operation[K]. The leaves are quite thick and have a mild flavour when young, at this time they are quite an acceptable ingredient of mixed salads, though they can become bitter in hot dry weather[K]. When cooked they make an acceptable spinach substitute[238]. It is possible to have leaves available all year round from successional sowings[K]. Flower buds - cooked[1, 238]. A globe artichoke substitute[12, 183], they are used before the flowers open. The flavour is mild and acceptable, but the buds are quite small and even more fiddly to use than globe artichokes[K]. Stems - raw or cooked[4, 100]. They are best peeled and can be soaked to reduce the bitterness[5, 183]. Palatable and nutritious[4, 115], they can be used like asparagus or rhubarb[12] or added to salads. They are best used in spring when they are young[105]. A good quality oil is obtained from the seeds[4]. The roasted seed is a coffee substitute[21, 46, 61, 183]. Medicinal Uses Plants For A Future can not take any responsibility for any adverse effects from the use of plants. Always seek advice from a professional before using a plant medicinally. Astringent; Bitter; Cholagogue; Diaphoretic; Diuretic; Emetic; Emmenagogue; Hepatic; Homeopathy; Stimulant; Stomachic; Tonic. Blessed thistle has a long history of use in the West as a remedy for depression and liver problems[254]. Recent research has confirmed that it has a remarkable ability to protect the liver from damage resulting from alcoholic and other types of poisoning[254]. The whole plant is astringent, bitter, cholagogue, diaphoretic, diuretic, emetic, emmenagogue, hepatic, stimulant, stomachic and tonic[4, 21, 160, 165, 238]. It is used internally in the treatment of liver and gall bladder diseases, jaundice, cirrhosis, hepatitis and poisoning[238]. The plant is harvested when in flower and dried for later use[238]. Silymarin, an extract from the seed, acts on the membranes of the liver cells preventing the entry of virus toxins and other toxic compounds and thus preventing damage to the cells[244]. It also dramatically improves liver regeneration in hepatitis, cirrhosis, mushroom poisoning and other diseases of the liver[222, 238, 254]. German research suggests that silybin (a flavonoid component of the seed) is clinically useful in the treatment of severe poisoning by Amanita mushrooms[222]. Seed extracts are produced commercially in Europe[222]. Regeneration of the liver is particularly important in the treatment of cancer since this disease is always characterized by a severely compromised and often partially destroyed liver[K]. A homeopathic remedy is obtained from equal parts of the root and the seed with its hulls still attached[4]. It is used in the treatment of liver and abdominal disorders[9]. ------ http://www.pfaf.org/database/plants.php?Cirsium+arvense
Cirsium arvense - (L.)Scop. Creeping Thistle (a.k.a.) Canadian Thistle
Edibility Rating 2 (1-5) Medicinal Rating 2 (1-5)
Edible Uses Edible Parts: Leaves; Root; Stem. Edible Uses: Curdling agent. Root of first year plants - raw or cooked[183]. Nutritious but rather bland, they are best used in a mixture with other vegetables[9]. The root is likely to be rich in inulin, a starch that cannot be digested by humans. This starch thus passes straight through the digestive system and, in some people, ferments to produce flatulence[K]. Stems - they are peeled and cooked like asparagus or rhubarb[9, 12, 177, 183]. Leaves - raw or cooked[177, 183]. A fairly bland flavour, but the prickles need to be removed before the leaves can be eaten - not only is this rather fiddly but very little edible leaf remains[K]. The leaves are also used to coagulate plant milks etc[46, 61, 183]. Medicinal Uses Plants For A Future can not take any responsibility for any adverse effects from the use of plants. Always seek advice from a professional before using a plant medicinally. Antiphlogistic; Astringent; Diuretic; Emetic; Emmenagogue; Hepatic; Tonic. The root is tonic, diuretic, astringent, antiphlogistic and hepatic[207]. It has been chewed as a remedy for toothache[4]. A decoction of the roots has been used to treat worms in children[257]. A paste of the roots, combined with an equal quantity of the root paste of Amaranthus spinosus, is used in the treatment of indigestion[272]. The plant contains a volatile alkaloid and a glycoside called cnicin, which has emetic and emmenagogue properties[240]. The leaves are antiphlogistic[207]. They cause inflammation and have irritating properties[207[. -----
Eat it.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
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It's certainly not a Lactuca and I doubt that it's a sow thistle.
It one of the other thistles. It's identical to the thisles I get here each year in bucket loads. I live on a farm that had a major thistle and other weed problem when we arrived here nearly 20 years ago. I get these thistle seedlings emerging all over the garden every year. And it certainly isn't a Lactuca as I also have the honour of those coming up each year.
As to which variety of thistle it is....... can't tell you that.
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On Apr 24, 10:36pm, snipped-for-privacy@notme.com wrote:

if it's lettuce, breaking the leaf off will produce white milky sap.
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wrote:

That certainly does sound like a better way to test, especially if wearing gloves. :)
A common name for Lactuca was Poor Man's Opium, with the milky white sap and the sedative effect.
Kate - it helps me sleep
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On Apr 26, 8:56pm, snipped-for-privacy@notme.com wrote:

Hooked on Salad; the Tragedy of Veganism.
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wrote:

Hooked on Salad; the Tragedy of Veganism.
=========== It's a gateway drug. It leads to croutons.
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On Apr 24, 10:16pm, Charlie wrote:

yep. dandelions too.
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wrote:

Yes indeedy.
Dandelions have several uses round here.
Salads, teas, fried blossoms....and compost.
Oh, and fun for the grands to blow seedheads.
Charlie
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