"Vote for insanity. You know it makes sense." -Lord Sutch

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Put my ballot in the mail today. In the past I've gotten a bit weirded out voting before most everyone else, but what needed to be done this time was so obvious, if galling, that I just did the "all democrats" thing with the realization that if that doesn't work, things will only get worse, whereas if it does work, things may merely stay just as bad.
On our ballot the only well-represented third-party is Libertarians. About two out of every three of their basic ideas aren't all that nutty, but when they're wrong, hooboy are they off the deep end nuts. If they ever had an ounce of power they promise to give the national forests away to big business who will of course be excellent guardians of the resources for everyone. And the moon is made of cheese. A civil libertarian myself, it annoys me that the word has become increasingly associated with these crackpots.
The Greens weren't well represented on the ballot & the Green presidential candidate is such a screw-loose dipshit anyway; yesterday I heard him actually promising in his swishy Sylvester lisp, "We will fightth for the rightth of animalth and plantth." Well good for you buster, but I'm afraid the plants might outwit you, & by the way, you're embarrassing to environmentalists. Or how about voting Nader -- that'd be like voting for a pot of moldy beans & then when you sit down to eat, surprise surprise, it's still moldy beans. Besides, he still owes me the $20 he stole from me.
Constitution party? Is there slogan on women's rights still, "Barefoot & Pregnant & In the Kitchen!" They make crazy-right Bush look like a moderate. They're such fundamentalist twits with zero sense of history, talking about some alternate-world wherein founding fathers weren't Deists & Masons after all, but Baptists, & they're not joking, they really believe their crap is sweet. The Constitution Party makes me miss the Northwest Rhinocerous Party which ran on platforms of party hats & moon colonies & a tiddly-wink in every pot, which made ever so much more logical sense. So while in past years I've liked to vote for the occasional third party, this year there wouldn't've been any non-loony choices anyhow.
-paghat the ratgirl
--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
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The LP here (Rochester NY) has a booth at some of the local outdoor festivals. The following theory came from one of the staff, who I *hope* was not representative of the mainstream in that party. Ready? Do away with all tax except sales tax. When I questioned him about which charity would maintain the roads, he said the users of roads would pay for it. How? Toll booths. I commented that we already had toll booths on highways like the NY State Thruway, but I couldn't see how the concept would work on local roads. He said anything was possible.
He looked young, so I told him that the "right turn on red" thing didn't exist in many states until the oil crisis of the early 1970s, and was instituted so less cars would idle uselessly at red lights. I suggested that toll booths would reverse this concept. He said "Oh well. What can I tell ya?"
Oh boy.
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snipped-for-privacy@netscape.net says...

It helps if we'd remember that all politics is the result of a collision between two facts.
1. Most people want no laws that would restrict their freedom to do anything they want.
2. Without laws, and the means to enforce them, people with lots of smarts and no ethics will own the world.
The current problems result from a third fact. Those people with no ethics are MAKING the laws! And I include both major parties in that.
To get back on topic, I suggest planting a politician in your garden. Lots of fertilizer :-).
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

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actually... what ya get is afghanistans and saudia arabias.... a combination of devolution and muscle. Ingrid

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net / www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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I had the same thought the other day of voting straight party democrat. I fluctuate between Bush is going to win and our country will suffer circumstances we'll never recover from; to Kerry will win in a landslide because of all the new voters, young voters, etc, who are probably not counted in these idiotic polls.
The whole shit stinks. The Catholic is passing out booklets telling their parishioners how to vote according to Christ. Where's my book apologizing for the thousand priests (give or take) who have been convicted, caught, or indicted for raping children? Ya, I didn't think so.
v
On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 02:02:21 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@netscape.net (paghat) opined:

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circumstances
the
idiotic
for
indicted
Those priests did it for god. Now, pull down your pants while I go get the ruler.
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I have already decided that if Kerry doesnt win I am going to stop spending any money for anything except absolute necessities. I am going to keep my money under the cushions, not in the bank. I will encourage everyone in this country to simply go on strike against the wealthy corporations who have bought the politicians. Ingrid

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net / www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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spending any money

under the

simply go on

Ingrid
I would be happy to buy you a ticket to Havana or Peking, your choice.
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opined:

This is not the point. Nobody is saying this is not a great country. However, the current administration is turning it into a shit heap with the rest of the world. We are more hated now than ever, especially by terrorists. Good going, Geo.
I know someone who recently bought land in Costa Rica and the sound of having monkeys in my trees and waterfalls in my yard is starting to sound better and better to me.
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I am DAR .. long line of rebels. Ingrid

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net / www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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I'll take the ticket to Peking! If you're only offering one-way tickets I'll buy my own to get back. If you're only buying it for who you'd falsely assess as antiAmerican, well hey, for the vacation I'll play: AMERICA SUCKS. Now send me that ticket. Hoohoo! I'm going to China!
-paghat the ratgirl
--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
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Good idea, but not practical. In a perfect world I'd grow all my own food, only eat in season, never take a drug for anything, live in the boondocks. In the real world, I shop at the grocery store, take medication when needed, grow what I can.
I am pretty pissed off about the whole prescription drug thing with Canada. Why is it WE can make the drugs, export them out to Canada, but they can't import them back because they could be sub-standard? Are we selling sub-standard drugs to Canada?
On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:50:14 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@wi.rr.xx.com opined:

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but we have quite a bit of disposable income. we go out to eat, I buy stuff on ebay all the time, etc. we would just stop buying anything EXCEPT necessities. I mean it would only be for 4 years. I think I got enough fur coats, boots, etc to last that long. Got enough furniture. The problem as I see it is that the very wealthiest people and companies are buying more and more of our elections every year. I think if a significant number of people just stopped buying everything but the necessities for a while it may put a dent in the amount of money they can dump on "their" candidates. OTOH, maybe I should just take all my disposable income and only buy stuff made by Democrats. the whole reimportation from Canada is bullshit. production of many if not most drugs is out sourced to other countries already, that is why we are coming up short on flu vaccine. I find it unbelievable that W insist he is protecting Americans from sub-standard drugs from Canada and then in the next breath says we are working with Canadians to get flu vaccine from them. INgrid

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net / www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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snipped-for-privacy@wi.rr.xx.com wrote:

stuff on ebay

necessities. I mean it

to last that

wealthiest
year. I think

necessities
only buy

not most

coming up short

sub-standard
Canadians to

If you go four years as a minimalist consumer you may find you're healthier & prefer living without the clutter, so will continue the habit for life. There's much to be said for minimal consumerism because Americans tend to use up the world's resources hundreds of times faster than in many other countries, & we have very little to show for it beyond exposure to more carcinogens, fat asses, & an accumulation of pricy junk we scarsely even look at a second time.
-paghat the ratgirl
--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
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Ingrid, it's a deal. I promise to really put my mind to it. No buying outside of necessities. I can't promise four years, but I can promise one month at a time. More feasible for me that way. I know you're right, but it's not as easy as it sounds. If I never bought another thing outside of necessities I have way more than I ever thought I'd have, so it's not really a big stretch to not buy things. I'm also making my own clothes, lately.
V
On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:45:53 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@wi.rr.xx.com opined:

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In article snipped-for-privacy@thebestplace2be.org says...

Actually this is illegal. According to their non-profit, tax exempt status, the Catholic church or any church can't campaign for any candidate.
--
Nixon hated running for president during football season, but he did
it anyway. Nixon was a professional politician, and I despised
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opined:

They do it in a sneaky way. They list out several things which a Catholic must consider when voting. Abortion, for example. They tell the parishioners they must not vote for anyone who is pro-choice. That is one I can think of. There are others which guilt them into not thinking for themselves and people who are ignorant, like my mother in law, will follow into the fire.
I'm off to vote for the man who will sign off on stem cell research, and pro-choice. I'm voting for the man who will consider the world view when acting in an International way. I'm voting for the better of the two. I AM of the belief "anybody but bush," but I also truly think Kerry will make a better president.
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Why do you want a traitor for President?? If the Swifty's are lying about Kerry why doesn't he take them to court and sue them for slander and defamation of character?? I'm sure the Swifty's would love to get him in court and have him prove that they are telling lies about him.
says...

their
must
they
There
who are

acting
the
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Even if all the Swifties claims are correct and unexaggerated, which they're not, Kerry would not be a traitor, just another opportunist politician, which he is. So is Bush.
So why will I vote for Kerry?
Lets see. A recent survey of Bush supporters by a college in Maryland found that a majority believed:
1. That Bush supports the Kyoto treaty - he doesn't. 2. That Bush supports the Int'l Criminal Court - he doesn't. 3. That Bush supports a ban on land mines - he doesn't. 4. That Bush still claims Saddam had WMD - he doesn't.
There was more, but that gives you the point. A college spokesman called it "cognitive dissonance", I call it "I know what I believe, don't confuse me with facts.:
So why am I voting for Kerry? Well, I have other reasons, but that survey just added a big one - I don't want to be associated with people who deny reality!
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

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Larry Blanchard wrote:

Yep, Bush and his incompetent administration depend on the ideologically incarcerated, the befuddled, and the just-plain-ignorant for support.
I believe you're referring to two PIPA (U of Maryland Program on International Policy Attitudes) poll reports:
1. One, released pre-debate on Sept 29 and described at:
http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/html/new_9_29_04.html
Excerpt:
"Bush Supporters Misread Many of His Foreign Policy Positions
"Kerry Supporters Largely Accurate
"Swing Voters Also Misread Bush, But Not Kerry
"As the nation prepares to watch the presidential candidates debate foreign policy issues, a new PIPA-Knowledge Networks poll finds that Americans who plan to vote for President Bush have many incorrect assumptions about his foreign policy positions. Kerry supporters, on the other hand, are largely accurate in their assessments. The uncommitted also tend to misperceive Bushs positions, though to a smaller extent than Bush supporters, and to perceive Kerrys positions correctly. Steven Kull, director of PIPA, comments: What is striking is that even after nearly four years President Bushs foreign policy positions are so widely misread, while Senator Kerry, who is relatively new to the public and reputed to be unclear about his positions, is read correctly."
2. The second one released on Oct 21, described at:
http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/html/new_10_21_04.html
Excerpts:
"Bush Supporters Still Believe Iraq Had WMD or Major Program, Supported al Qaeda
"Agree with Kerry Supporters Bush Administration Still Saying This is the Case Agree US Should Not Have Gone to War if No WMD or Support for al Qaeda
"Bush Supporters Misperceive World Public as Not Opposed to Iraq War, Favoring Bush Reelection
"Even after the final report of Charles Duelfer to Congress saying that Iraq did not have a significant WMD program, 72% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq had actual WMD (47%) or a major program for developing them (25%). Fifty-six percent assume that most experts believe Iraq had actual WMD and 57% also assume, incorrectly, that Duelfer concluded Iraq had at least a major WMD program. Kerry supporters hold opposite beliefs on all these points.
"Similarly, 75% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda, and 63% believe that clear evidence of this support has been found. Sixty percent of Bush supporters assume that this is also the conclusion of most experts, and 55% assume, incorrectly, that this was the conclusion of the 9/11 Commission. Here again, large majorities of Kerry supporters have exactly opposite perceptions. . . .
"[Steven] Kull [, director of PIPA] continues, 'To support the president and to accept that he took the US to war based on mistaken assumptions likely creates substantial cognitive dissonance, and leads Bush supporters to suppress awareness of unsettling information about prewar Iraq.'
"This tendency of Bush supporters to ignore dissonant information extends to other realms as well. Despite an abundance of evidence--including polls conducted by Gallup International in 38 countries, and more recently by a consortium of leading newspapers in 10 major countries--only 31% of Bush supporters recognize that the majority of people in the world oppose the US having gone to war with Iraq. . . .
"Similarly, 57% of Bush supporters assume that the majority of people in the world would favor Bush's reelection; . . . A recent poll by GlobeScan and PIPA of 35 of the major countries around the world found that in 30, a majority or plurality favored Kerry, while in just 3 Bush was favored. On average, Kerry was preferred more than two to one.
"Bush supporters also have numerous misperceptions about Bush's international policy positions. Majorities incorrectly assume that Bush supports multilateral approaches to various international issues . . . In all these cases, majorities of Bush supporters favor the positions they impute to Bush. Kerry supporters are much more accurate in their perceptions of his positions on these issues."
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