Uncovered a rabbit nest iin my half-barrel planter

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On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 00:03:10 +1000, Erik Vastmasd

I'm saying I don't discriminate between human and animal life. I see both as valuable and would not kill either, intentionally. I believe in karma. Karma is a Sanskrit word meaning action. Everything I do will have a reaction which will ripen at some point. If I save an ant from the pool, someone will save me. If I kill, I will eventually be killed. Action/Reaction. I'm a Buddhist and we don't believe in killing anything.
Culling to prevent starvation? I'm a little torn by that one. Admittedly, I have put my pets down when they were suffering. That type of killing karma is not as heavy as if I did sport hunting for fun, not food. I won't kill animals to feed me, either. If I don't eat meat I am not part of the cog where animals suffer to feed me. Because it's in the package at the grocery store doesn't mean it didn't once have a face with eyes. I don't know, this is who I am. It upsets me when people kill because I don't want to see them suffer, but there is nothing I can do about that.
This may all sound ridiculous and superstitious, but not to me or to the billion other Buddhists on the planet.
I think we could all benefit by having a bigger heart.
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On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 10:51:04 -0500,when reading "rec.gardens", I'm

I'm an Atheist but this is a gardening newsgroup so I won't discuss our differences in religious beliefs.

--

Erik.

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On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:11:59 +1000, Erik Vastmasd

I'm also an atheist. Buddhism does not believe in creation or a central god.
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wrote:

I'm wondering whether you two are really atheists, or perhaps agnostics. You're aware of the difference: Atheists assert that there is no "god" "supreme being" "whatever". Agnostics say they just do not know. Many live as though they were atheists, but adopt the view that they cannot assert something for which there is no scientific proof, nor can there be. It's an important difference. OTOH, believers operate on faith.
Persephone
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On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 11:54:41 -0700, Persephone wrote:

No, I'm an ateist. I know the difference. I do not believe there is anyone or anything which created anything or anyone. There is no beginning or end. That's my faith base. Not skeptical about evidence regardless if or if there isn't a god who created. I don't buy any of it. That's an atheist.
In Buddhism there are realms, one of which is called a god realm, but it doesn't imply this represents a creator or even a supreme being above anyone else. We all have the potential to develop that state of mind where god realms are a possibility. It's a state of mind, not something existing from its own side. Emptiness means nothing exists without someone putting a label on it. Many think that is nhilistic, it is different than that. There are two truths in Buddhism; Ultimate and Conventional reality. Ultimate reality is that nothing exists from its own side, isn't produced, but is not unproduced.
It's way too big a topic to discuss here, but I am atheist, not agnostic.
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wrote:

Thanks for detailed and interesting account.
Persephone
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On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:06:41 -0700, Persephone wrote:

The last word on this is if you want to know how Buddhism works an excellent place to look is www.lywa.org
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Could you be more specific? All I heard was a lot of throat clearing.
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
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wrote:

Yes, Rinpoche does do a lot of that, but eventually we don't hear the coughing and clearing. However, there are many western teachers. This Buddhist nun is American and she is more than qualified to teach the topic of emptiness.
http://www.archive.org/details/Tse_Chen_Ling_Chokyi_DB_Wisddom_2007_03
There are also many teachings on the Internet Archive if you do a search on Ven. Robina Courtin. She is one of my Lama's. The word Lama in Tibetan means teacher. Here, I did the search for you:
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=Ven%20Robina%20AND%20mediatype%3Aaudio%20AND%20collection%3Aaudio_religion
All of these are free to download.
Also, you can find wonderful teachings which you can watch or listen to for free here:
http://www.dalailama.com/page.188.htm
There is a world out there.
Here's another:
http://recordings.kurukulla.org/index.sphp
Page down till you find Ven. Robina Courtin. All free. This should keep you busy for a while.
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O', den you won't be joining us for next spring's fertility rites;-)
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
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In article

While looking about for voluptuous plants inspired from your post found this tidbit.
<http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res 01E1D81030F935A35752C0A 9649C8B63&sec=&spon=>
Bill
Last sentence from above URL.
"Two hundred years ago, the pleasure must have been as sweet when a botanist and a prince -- and possibly they were the same man -- conceived the idea and accordingly decreed that, no matter how dark the night or how troubled and complex the political situation, on the dinner table, at least, it thenceforth might as well be spring. "
--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
Neat place .. http://www.petersvalley.org /
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In article

"I'm as restless as a willow in a windstorm, I'm as jumpy as puppet on a string"
I'd call it tornado season:o(
Voluptuous plants ain't exactly wot I 'ad in mind, mate, wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Take care now and don't get no splinters.
Ah, ye kin take the boy outta the country but ye can't take the country outta the boy;-)
Sad thing about the dinning ware is that it is designated the "good dinning ware" put into a hutch to be gazed at and rarely, if ever, used. The petit bourgeois drove Flaubert to depression and fame.
--

Billy
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I'm a little curious about something now. You mentioned in another post that you weed your garden. I understand you have to kill plants to eat and survive, but how does weeding fit in? This is simple curiosity, since I weed without compunction. You mentioned you won't use a herbicide, so I wondered if there's a difference- there certainly isn't any difference in that the plant is dead. (Not saying anything against that either, since while I am not organic, I also don't use any pesticides or herbicides on my property).
Chris
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On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:34:51 -0700 (PDT), Chris

We all kill things all day long. We walk on insects, microbes, digest and kill bacteria. Sentient beings. Plants are not sentient beings. At least they aren't sentient in my belief system. His Holiness the Dalai Lama says plants are not sentient beings and I agree. There are the studies of plants reacting to different stimuli, but by pulling a weed, I am not committing murder, nor am I creating non-virtuous karma by pulling weeds.
I kill all day. There isn't an atom of space where a sentient being doesn't exist (according to Buddhist teachings). I am very mindful of that so when I walk I look down and intentionally try not to step on things I can see with my eyes. Etc.
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Like I said, I am certainly not condemning you for any of your practices. But I have to ask something to be sure- do you really consider bacteria and other microorganisms to be sentient?
Chris

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On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:43:08 -0700 (PDT), Chris

Yes, they are sentient beings according to the Dharma teachings. They are the absolutely lowest realm of sentient beings, and it could take billions of eons to get around to being born into a human body, but indeed have that ability. Plants are different. They coexist with sentient beings, but they do not have the consciousness of other life forms. This is a subject which is so vast it would be so hard to explain the details of what is or isn't sentient that it would not be fair to either you, or to the teachings. I don't feel like you are condemning me for my practices. I don't hurt anyone by being Buddhist, so how could anyone say anything negative.
I say if you are interested do some checking for yourself. One thing Buddha of our historical time, back 2,500 years ago always insisted his students check it out and never take his word for it. Buddhism is an active part of life, it's something which grows and grows as the vocabulary of Buddhism grows. It takes years and years.
The main point is, don't kill. Certainly don't kill innocent animals. I find it ghastly that people here are talking about drowning animals as if it was like breathing. Easy to snuff out an animal just like that. I don't know how a person can exist like that. Something is missing. I'm glad I am who I am as well as I believe to live and let live. In my garden, all critters are alive unless they die of natural ways. Just last night two of the cutest baby opossums came up by the house because my husband threw out our parrots left over food from the day and they were eating it. I thought that was the cutest thing I'd seen and I am so pleased they are safe here. That's just my take.
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In article

Caught in Cartesian dualism are ye? Good luck. You gave the rocks a good chuckle though, good on you ;o)

--

Billy
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wrote:

What does this mean?
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From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism_(philosophy_of_mind)
"The central claim of what is often called Cartesian dualism, in honor of Descartes, is that the immaterial mind and the material body, while being ontologically distinct substances, causally interact. This is an idea which continues to feature prominently in many non-European philosophies. Mental events cause physical events, and vice-versa. But this leads to a substantial problem for Cartesian dualism: How can an immaterial mind cause anything in a material body, and vice-versa? This has often been called the "problem of interactionism".
Descartes himself struggled to come up with a feasible answer to this problem. In his letter to Elisabeth of Bohemia, Princess Palatine, he suggested that animal spirits interacted with the body through the pineal gland, a small gland in the centre of the brain, between the two hemispheres. The term "Cartesian dualism" is also often associated with this more specific notion of causal interaction through the pineal gland. However, this explanation was not satisfactory: how can an immaterial mind interact with the physical pineal gland? Because Descartes's was such a difficult theory to defend, some of his disciples, such as Arnold Geulincx and Nicholas Malebranche, proposed a different explanation: That all mind-body interactions required the direct intervention of God. According to these philosophers, the appropriate states of mind and body were only the occasions for such intervention, not real causes. These occasionalists maintained the strong thesis that all causation was directly dependent on God, instead of holding that all causation was natural except for that between mind and body."
Chris
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On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 05:46:07 -0700 (PDT), Chris

It was the statement, "Caught in Cartesian dualism are ye? Good luck. You gave the rocks a good chuckle though, good on you ;o)" which I was questioning. Cartesian dualism was nothing new to eastern philosophy, as it shows in the definition. The historical Buddha of the Shakya tribe figured dualism out long before Descartes did.
The cup has tea in it. If you break the cup, it will no longer be a cup. It will be a pile of shards or whatever you choose to call it, but the tea is still the tea. So the body is a vessel for the mind. It is not part of the brain. The brain functions as a local powerhouse to charge the physical body to operate, but it has nothing to do with the mind.
Emptiness, as Buddhism discusses, is the complete lack of dualistic properties...and everything is inter dependant, tied together by cause and effect. Karma is a very complex discussion and far too many people are not willing, nor are they interested in the least about its workings. Certainly not here in rec.gardens.
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