tree wound dressing

[symplastless]

[Dave]

Like everything else, there's exceptions to the latest thought which addresses generalities, not specifics.

An example. I have 5 acres of central TX property. The native prevailing trees are in order - Juniper ashe, live oak, red oak, pecan, and a spattering of chinaberry in my specific area. I cut juniper ashe any time of the year, may be the whole tree, or, a swath up the trunk of the tree just above head height. No dressing is ever applied ever to such cuts. All have no problems healing over such cuts. Live oak, I only prune dead limbs. No time of year specific No problems here. No dressing applied. I have no other tree species on my property.

Oops, I do have one lemon tree about a foot tall in a pot. Haven't pruned it.

My dad used repair type roofing tar on his pecan trees after making cuts of branches off the trunk. No visible ill effects. One has been cut down due to height constraints in the area, the remainder are still in place.

Some juniper ashe have to take cuts on branches at the trunk. Some will branch entirely horizontally. Making it impossible to mow under them. This is also how such a tree aids containing water beneath such a tree.

All is observational, and could be easily an oversight on my part, But, I doubt it. Dave

[symplastless]

. No dressing is ever applied ever to such cuts. All

First, trees do not heal wounds. Trees do not heal wounds. Wound dressing does not stop rot or the spread of disease. So why would you apply it at all?

Trees compartmentalize and they do not heal.

[Jangchub]

As far as I can tell nobody said anything about wound dressing in the post you answered. I live in Texas where oak wilt is present and if a tree must be pruned during the time when pathogen vectors are also present, the wound must be painted. Proper sanitation between cuts, etc. Trees in Texas are very valuable to property sales. I have three live oak trees well over 300 years old, according to a very reputable arborist. The estimate is conservative, they may be almost

400, but in years of drought the added rings are not measurable in most cases.

I may be on a rant, sorry, but you are correcting semantics and that doesn't seem very skillful.

[symplastless]

I am well aware of the thought that trees in Texas respond differently to wounds than in other states. Could you please explain how wound dressing help trees in Texas when it does not in other states? If you know how to prune trees correctly than wound dressing would not be of any value. If you do not prune trees correctly wound dressing does not stop or stall the spread of pathogens or does it stop rot.

Don't spoil your proper pruning job by coating the wounds with tree paint or wound dressing. After over 13 years of wood dressing research, Dr. Shigo and Dr. Shortle concluded that these paints do nothing to prevent decay and little or nothing to promote wound closure.

There are no data to show that wound dressings prevent or stall decay.

Microorganisms have their picnics and parties under wound dressings.

It is the wound dressing idea more than the material that is dangerous. People are taught that you can do anything you want to a tree and all you have to do is paint it black and it is a forgiveness of sin. Trees do not function that way.

Heartrot and wound dressings are twins.

Wound dressings do not stop rot. I incorrect pruning starts a long list of costly problems: cankers, sun scald, frost cracks, insect borers and the list goes on and on.

The search for new wound dressings continues, and I doubt that it will ever end. Many claims are made, but they are not supported by sound data from experiments with controls and dissections after five to seven years.

pruning real problem with wound dressings is not the dressing, but the idea behind the dressing. Throughout the history of tree treatments, tree mutilations were accepted mainly because some "magic medicine" would cover the wounds and prevent infections and rot. This idea gave every tree mutilator free reign over a multitude of incorrect procedures that included flush cutting, topping, tipping, digging deeply into wounds, inserting drain tubes, pointing vertical tips of wounds, and injecting deeply into trunks. The wound dressing idea has been the major problem holding back progress for better tree care procedures. Sad, but the idea is continuously being reinforced not only by people who see trees as a source of profit, but even worse, by people who are supposed to be researchers. The idea is kept alive by promises of the magic medicine coming soon. The promise has been active for at least two centuries. The idea allows anyone to become an arborist or tree expert any time he or she wishes. History shows this to be true.

I used to use wound dressing until I found out that the treatment is of no value to the tree. If you wanted to make a cavity for a small wildlife you could make a flush cut and paint the wound. This would stimulate decay and create a cavity. Good for small wildlife but not good for the tree.

No matter what we say or write some people will still pursue wound dressing. The sad part is most people who claim wound dressing helps are people who do not understand trees. They make claims that wound dressings help trees "heal". Trees seal but do not heal wounds. Heal is an animal term not a tree term.

Texas has gone through a long period of flush cuts from years past. many problems with trees is directly related to flush cuts and wound dressing that were applied in the past. Wound dressings and flush cuts were the treatments of the past which gave us many problems of the present. What would really help trees for the future is adjustments to pruning.

Oh,well.

[Don Staples]

Smart answers about your thoughts aside, practical experience in Texas indicates would dressing does work. I have work trees after hurricanes for the last 40 years, and have seen the results. Wound dressing prevented invasive rots, while no dressing may or may not have done the same. Practical knowledge, not from your host.

Beware a so called tree biologist that never studied biology.

[Jangchub]

Thanks for not using one word in my post to which your response seems to be directed at. If you read the literature you will find nobody ever suggested flush cuts, nor have I ever made a flush cut on anything at any time. Nobody said painting the cuts "heals" the cut. Cutting outside the collar indeed does close over and eventually the wound is concealed. The other thing I said which you comletely ignored (possibly, I couldn't read your entire post) was my statement which indicated proper pruning at the correct time when the insect vector was not present.

In actuality, oak wilt is mostly transmitted tree to tree by underground fungal mat and trenching is recommended when there are trees in the area with active decline.Even then it may be too late.

I wish you had better reading skills. Where did you study tree biology?

[Billy]

Just an observation, John. I think your response would have been better if you had lost the first paragraph and only kept the next four and the last paragraphs. Too much writing and the mind gets numb.

[Billy]

Where did you study courtesy?

[John McWilliams]

Too much quoting does the same, and it's discouteous.

[symplastless]

How does bark form?

[symplastless]

You require dissections after five years of studies. What have you dissected and how?

[Charlie]

Good grief man, you are one hard-to-fathom feller.

[Billy]

What? The cambium, sunlight and CO2, a dog? Could you state your question less ambiguously without the preamble as to why you posed it i the first place? Congratulations, though, on the economy of words.

[symplastless]

I did not mean to direct that question to you Billy.

Yes the cambial zone produces xylem to the inside and phloem to the out side. Also, there is outer bark. I would ask the wound dressing pushers how outer bark is formed and why some trees have smooth bark (beech) and some do not (chestnut oak)? I would be ashamed if my pruning was so bad I had to use wound dressing. Oak wilt is greatly influenced by flush cuts and wound dressing does not help trees close wounds. Some people just do not understand trees. They will not go away or either will the wound dressing idea. If someone on this news group prunes trees correctly please place some pictures of your donuts of callus or wound wood after pruning to prove you know where the targets are.

Here is mine at bottom.

People that make flush cuts should not be allowed to prune oak trees in Texas.

[Jangchub]

[symplastless]

Think about all the beliefs and treatments that were false. Before the germ theory, people believed that diseases caused microorganisms. Babies were thought to be fertilized by liquids from the male. The earth was thought to be flat. The sun was thought to travel around the earth. Best to put warm materials on burns. Bleeding a sick person gets rid of the nasty things inside. The gods lived in Olympus and did all things. Wound dressings stop rpt in trees. Flush pruning is best because the wounds heal faster. Drilling holes to let out wetwood and stop decay. Planting trees good and deep is good for trees. Trees heal wounds, roots regenerate, and trees have root flairs. The list is long with tree practices and with many other practices. It is a wonder people and trees are still around! The frightening part of this is that false beliefs come easier than the truth. many myths and misunderstandings are still with us. To erase a myth is very difficult, yet to add another myth is easy. Dr. Shigo read many books and magazines, mostly about science. The beliefs come and go in science also. If others can have beliefs, why can't we? Further, we find it difficult to understand how people inside can write about systems that grow outside? We do not believe trees can be understood by looking at them only from their outsides. Until Andreas Vesalius began systematic dissections of human bodies, the myths about our bodies were many. Until tree anatomy, not wood anatomy, is learned, we will be in the same position with trees. Wound dressing is a very silly idea.

[symplastless]

Show me some pictures of your doughnuts on live oak trees.

[Jangchub]

What? You want me to show you my branch collar cuts? If I have time I'll take some photo's.

[Don Staples]

No, he lost this one, and is diverting the conversation.