The most toxic town in America (Monsanto)

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Appropos considering our recent discussions:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/11/07/60minutes/main528581.shtml
"Imagine a place so saturated with toxic, cancer-causing chemicals that it's in the dirt people walk on, the air they breathe - even the blood that pumps through their veins.
The 24,000 people living in Anniston, Ala., don't have to imagine this. Many of them are living it. In fact, they have been living it for decades - they just didn't know it. The company responsible didn't tell them, and neither did the Environmental Protection Agency."
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I presume you mean our recent discussions about Roundup. If so, then this article is NOT "Appropos" (sic). I quote the key paragraph from this story:
"The problem is polychlorinated byphenyls - PCBs - one of the most pervasive and profitable industrial chemicals of 20th Century America."
I have never heard of any PCB's in Roundup. Have you? If not, I expect an apology to the newsgroup for a deliberate attempt to mislead.
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Why? Who's misleading whom? They said it was safe back then, and they are saying it's safe now. Why should we believe them (Monsanto)? Change the formula a bit, make some more money, 70 years later, say "oops sorry, we didn't know about that, here's some chump change".
What's funny is that all these health agencies still can't say if PCB's actually (not *probably*) cause cancer or not, despite there not being any "debate" in the blah blah scientific community and useless government bodies:
Carpenter is also an expert on PCBs and says every national and international health agency in the world lists PCBs as a probable human carcinogen.
"There is evidence in humans consistent with the conclusion that they cause cancer," says Carpenter, who adds that PCB exposure increases the risk of almost all major diseases, including heart disease and diabetes. "Within the objective scientific community and within the government bodies, there is no debate at all."
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It's got nothing to do with "believing" Monsanto. The point here is that the article quoted is irrelevant to "recent discussions" on this newsgroup. Roundup has no PCBs. The article was about PCBs.
The original post was intended to deceive. Now who has the credability problem?
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Fine, you don't want to believe the article is relevant to "recent discussions" - I'll make it relevant:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/11/07/60minutes/main528581.shtml

Do not grow vegetables from soil imported from Anniston. Use discretion when using soil or water from or near former PCB chemical factories. Be aware of ecological indicators of high PCB whether they are thin bird shell eggs or incontinent pets. Polychlorinated biphenyls are persistent chemicals that do not readily degrade through natural processes but are readily distributed by the same.
- Salty
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Fine but how does this relate to "current discussion" on this newsgroup? I just did a Google search and since 1998 not one person has posted asking about the wisdom of using PCBs in his or her garden.
You radical environmentalists are truly bankrupt.
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wrote

It relates to the current discussion because I am reiterating the point made in the link of the initial post of the presence of PCBs in the soil of Anniston. Do you know what gardeners use soil for, Dave? Now if there isn't any further interest in discussing that fact, then the thread should end here. If there are any tangental lines of interest, then they may proceed at the discretion of the users of the group. If you find the tangentals to be woefully off-topic, I suggest you deal that problem locally, viz. learn how to operate your newsreading software; or if you feel the need, complain to the address listed in the "X-Complaints-To:" header of the offending post(s).
I seriously doubt anyone here needs you or anyone else to police the group by insisting on what is or what is not 'on-topic'.
If anybody disagrees with that, feel free to voice you support by adding "Dave Gower You Are My Hero Thank You For Saving Me From The Evil Crazy Radical Lunatic Organic Hippie Anti-business Did I Mention Evil Nutjob Salinated Disembodied Finger Crackpot Crazy Rodent-loving Freak-shows!"

Wow, you are ssssssooooooooo smart!
-- Salty
P.S. Hi Paghat.
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The real point Gower makes is only that it doesn't matter to him how much harm a company is known to have done past or present, he will always find a way to stick up for corporate interests cuz that's his god until an even skankier one comes along. Having first taken the untennable stance that "RoundUp is good" his answer to all Monsanto's history of appalling destructive criminal behavior against humanity & the environment will always be "RoundUp is good." Nothing else matters. Cuz RoundUp is good. When eventually it's on the junkpile of stuff that killed a lot of people & no longer legal to sell (like so many past Monsanto bonanza products) then whatever is next in line to be "safe" & highly profitable will be good enough to keep on excusing Monsanto.

But by "bankrupt" Gower likely means only that Monsanto is getting rich killing people, while envionmentalists' unwillingness to kill people means most of 'em will die poor. It's a Monsanto "neener" -- sure they killed & injured people & places, but in this worldview, the only thing that isn't bankupt is the highest possible profitability.
-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
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Nah. A simple high-five will suffice.
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wrote

Try not to let your arm get a cramp while you're waiting.
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On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:11:54 -0400, "Dave Gower"

Read what your own canadian researchers have to say about the disruption of soil biology by glyphosates. Talk to those dry wheat boys and find out what years of working with Monsanto has gotten them.
Radical is being concerned about the future of our soils?
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On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 23:15:35 -0400, "Dave Gower"

Apparently you live in a bubble....perhaps you should talk to those farmers instead of just statcan ing them!
CWB ASKS MONSANTO TO PUT THE BRAKES ON ROUNDUP READY WHEAT: In a May 22 letter from the Canadian Wheat Board (CWB), Board of Directors Chair Ken Ritter and Adrian Measner, President and CEO, asked Monsanto Canada's President, Peter Turner, to withdraw Monsanto's application for an environmental safety assessment of Roundup Ready wheat (RRW). Monsanto's RRW application is currently before the Canadian Food Inspection Agency. The letter detailed the devastating economic impact the introduction of RRW will have on western Canadian farmers. "Economic harm could include lost access to premium markets, penalties caused by rejected shipments, and increased farm management and grain handling costs," the letter states. The CWB has asked Monsanto to confirm its compliance with the CWB's request by June 27, 2003. The CWB has already called on the federal government to close the regulatory gap on genetically modified wheat by adding a cost benefit analysis to the food, feed and environmental assessments currently being undertaken on RRW. However, the CWB is taking this additional step because RRW could be approved before the introduction of any regulatory changes. "Under the current system, RRW could be approved for unconfined release as early as 2004," Ritter said. "We had to move quickly, so we are appealing to Monsanto directly." MONSANTO CANADA DECLINES TO WITHDRAW REGULATORY APPROVAL: The May 28 edition of Agriline reported that Monsanto Canada will continue to seek regulatory approval for GMO wheat despite a request from the Canadian Wheat Board (CWB) to withdraw its application, but maintains it will not release any varieties until GMO wheat is approved in the U.S., Japan, and Canada. The article states that approval could come as early as next year.
UNCLASSIFIED USDA Foreign Agricultural Service MONSANTO URGES OTTAWA TO CONTINUE APPROVAL PROCESS: On June 12, representatives from Monsanto appeared before the Canadian House of Commons Standing Committee on Agriculture. Kerry Preete, Monsanto VP of U.S. Markets, testifying on the importance of allowing Roundup Ready Wheat to proceed through the Canadian regulatory approval process, said, "We believe it is important to have regulatory agencies in Canada, US GAIN Report - CA3036 Page 3 of 7 and Japan review the food, feed and environmental safety of this product. Successfully completing the regulatory review process will send an important message to our customers around the world that this product has been comprehensively reviewed and is deemed safe. This review will help address questions and concerns raised during customer acceptance discussions." On the issue of market acceptance, Preete indicated that Monsanto was committed to working with the Canadian grain handling industry to "establish an effective segregation system" so that grain production could accommodate both GM and non-GM wheat varieties. CANADIAN WHEAT BOARD MULLS COURT ACTION TO STOP MONSANTO: According to a June 19 article from the National Post, Adrian Measner, president and chief executive of the Canadian Wheat Board (CWB), was cited as telling Reuters on June 18 that the CWB may consider legal action to stop Monsanto Co. from growing genetically modified (GM) wheat in Canada outside limited government-run trials, adding, "We've given strong assurances to our customers that we will make sure this situation is resolved in Canada and we intend to take whatever action necessary to do that." The story says it is the strongest statement the CWB has made to date on how far it will go to prevent GM wheat from being grown in the near future in Canada. Mr. Measner was further quoted as saying, "Having it grown in Canada, it's not an option. The costs are just too horrendous and it needs to be addressed." The CWB asked Monsanto to agree by tomorrow to withdraw its application. Monsanto t has not yet formally responded, he said. Monsanto has promised it will not commercialize the wheat until at least some customers accept it and until it can be dealt with separately within the bulk grain handling system.
Sustainable development is a high priority for many industry associations. For example, the Canadian Standards Association (CSA) developed a national sustainable forest management certification program for Canada's forest industry. Based on internationally agreed criteria and advice from interested stakeholders, the standards verify that a defined forest is being managed according to a sustainable forest management system. Model forests have also been established in many provinces to gain practical experience in sustainable forest management techniques. Some provinces, such as British Columbia and Alberta, have also launched discrete sustainable forest management initiatives.
Several major enterprises in Canada have adopted sustainable development policies, for example Shell, Imperial Oil, Ontario Hydro, TransAlta, Monsanto, Dow, Dupont, IBM, Alberta-Pacific Forest Industries, and Daishowa- Marubeni International. Cooperation: Canada endorses the OECD Guidelines for Multinational Enterprises as an important tool to support sustainable behavior by Canadia n companies investing in the developing world. For more information on the Canada and the MNE guidelines visit: http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/tna-nac/ncppcn / multinational-e.asp
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That MIGHT "limit" the extravagant harm done. Unfortunately the "instructions" are based on tests (fudged by Monsanto) of breakdown rates of glyphosate at room temperature in a microbe-rich environment. These tests are not on the actual mix of chemicals used, & do not take these issues into consideration:
1) In alkaline or low-organic content soils or soils with fewer microbes the glyphosate can remain active for over a year.
2) In colder zones (usda 5 & below) the glyphosate can remain active for well over a year, up to indefinitely alpine gardens.
3) If breakdown does occasionally happen as rapidly as the (fudged) lab-test-based results indicate, & upon which recommendations for safe use are founded, the results in no way actually apply to gardens where, unlike in a lab, Roundup breaks down into toxins such as formeldahyde, plus:
4) A percentage of the glyphosate bonds with the soil in such a manner as to be released for at least three months as still toxic, as shown by the clover tests with clover stunted by "properly" used glyphosate when planted three months after the glyphosate was "properly" used.
5) "Properly" used near trees & shrubs decreases winter hardiness of shrubs, & renders trees & especially maples more susceptible to fungal disease.
6) The surficant in RoundUp does find its way to watersheds & rivers no matter how carefully used.
7) The recommendations for proper use do not even take into consideration the increased toxicity of glyphosate when mixed with surficant, but are based on a "best case" (fudged) scenario based on pure glyphosate's break-down under ideal labratory conditions.
All of the above are major problems when "used as directed," even before considering the very real fact that it is rarely used as directed so that there are additional problems of use near water, of drift that has been shown in England to "accidentally" kill hedges at considerable distances from where used, the use of stronger mixtures & even application from airplanes, & use on & around edible crops intentionally altered to withstand glyphosate exposure & so ending up in human diet -- & the fact that every other product Monsanto ever claimed to be 100% safe as directed turned out to be unsafe to the nth degree. But discounting all that greater reality, & restricted to the things that make it UNSAFE as directed, this is the only factual conclusion:
USED RIGIDLY WITHIN THE PROPER GUIDELINES & INSTRUCTION, GLYPHOSATE IS NEVERTHELESS UNSAFE FOR THE ENVIRONMENT & CAUSES LASTING HARM.
So even your narrow argument for supporting a bad company & bad product simply does not apply. You either lie intentionially or more likely yoyu delude yourself & pass on your delusion, hoping to convince others as you've convinced yourself that the exact same company that brought us "safe" Agent Orange & "safe" PCBs & "safely" made its own company town the most poisoned in America is in this one & only case totally honest about "safe" glyphosate -- because liars proven to have falsified data time & again are, on your say-so, totally honest for the first time in their history, when it comes to the product YOU want to slather around "as directed."
-paghat the ratgirl
--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
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On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:11:54 -0400, "Dave Gower"

Ontario Wheat Board to Boycott Monsanto Effective Date: 8/28/2003 Source: DePutter Publishing Ltd.
Article:
At Tuesday’s annual meeting, the Ontario Wheat Producers’ Marketing Board agreed to officially and actively promote a boycott of products from Monsanto, specifically Roundup. The purpose of the effort is to convince the company to delay the sale of Roundup Ready Wheat.
The resolution specifically mentioned the use of alternative brands of glyphosate in the hope that such consumer action will keep Monsanto from releasing the genetically modified variety until a later date, such as when importers from other countries approve its usage and sale.
The motion was approved and the vote was cast, although an official count in favour was not necessary: the motion passed with only one dissenting vote.
Also at Tuesday’s meeting, a representative of the western Canada grain trade was in attendance and held discussions with members of the Wheat Board executive the night before. In the past two years, there has been a growing interest from producers in Canada’s Prairie Provinces in the advances in marketing options being made available to Ontario growers, through the Board.
The Canadian Wheat Board (CWB), which is based in Winnipeg, has also articulated concerns about Roundup Ready Wheat and other Monsanto products in Canada.
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On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:11:54 -0400, "Dave Gower"

http://www.cwb.ca/en/topics/biotechnology/report/pdf/070803.pdf
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Canada Newswire - OTTAWA/VIENNA, September 17
Monsanto Uses Canadian Taxpayer Money to Violate Foreign Laws Case highlights need for strong Biosafety Protocol
/CNW/ - Biotech giant [ Monsanto ] exported Canadian genetically engineered (GE) potatoes to Ukraine, ignoring the domestic laws which require environmental impact assessment.
Monsanto NewLeaf potatoes, developed in Prince Edward Island were exported to Ukraine in 1997 and 1998 with the help of Solanum-PEI. Solanum-PEI is a joint venture marketing and research company created by Monsanto and the government of PEI.
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EPA lifts ban on selling PCB sites http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cidg6&e  &u=/usatoday/11765280
PCB soil ... probably good for Bushes, but not much else.
-- Crazy Lunatic
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These sites are perfect opportunities for brownfield restoration/general remediation. An entire industry revolves around healing land like this.
Dave

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The EPA, the reputation of the Landscape Architect/Brownfield Restoration expert who wins the bid, the surrounding community,, all play a role.
Dave
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As I said in another post, no corporation "says" anything. People do. To talk that way reveals your infantile delusion.
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