The Greenhouse Hamburger

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And I believe in the Easter Bunny.

That helps explain it.
cheers
oz, a Heinlein guy
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Aluckyguess thinks. To Aluckyguess humans cannot damage or even destroy the earth itself, even if they want to. He or She is correct that humans are just a tic in time for this planet. The planet itself will continue with or without humans. Unless we humans turn the Earth into another asteroid belt.
However my position is, lets do what ever we can to help this plant and the human race survive (preferably in comfort) as long as possible.

In Vonnegut's book "Cats Cradle" a humorist book and a Hugo award runner up, ice-nine was a product that solidified the earths water supply, thus ending all life on earth.
When it comes to global warming and other topics, it is often useless and futile to argue with a person of a strong religious belief. Because in the end their argument will eventually come down to this "God will fix it someday".
Enjoy Life ... Dan
--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

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Thass true. But, thank FSM, there aren't any of those on this board.
cheers
oz...."The meek will indeed inherit the Earth, because everybody worth a shit will have, long since, left for the stars"
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the biosphere is given such short shrift, since it has been part of the planet for the last 4.5 billion years. So losing it or a significant portion of it can be construed as damage, especially when you consider that there may only be a billion years left to recover before solar heating does us in (the "editorial" us). Shame to lose it really, when you consider that the ol' girl (Earth) could still be beautiful and put off the inevitable for awhile longer, except for those "who-ever-has-the-most-toys-when-s/he-dies-wins" idiots. We owe this twisted vision to John Calvin. It is to be the reward of the "select". But what can you do in a country where more people believe in the "Virgin Birth" than evolution? http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res 00E7DE1730F936A2575BC0A9 659C8B63 Conversely, heaven for me is in my garden, or at my table, or playing spoons with my sweety on a cold winter's night. Be careful of the lunatics, when they think they see a profit, people get trampled.
--

Billy
Kleptocrats Behind Bars
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I am not in with the "Rapture" crowd. Have you forgotten one our past discussions. I am an atheist. I will agree that my garden is the closest thing on Earth that is a conceptual Heaven. Let's all pray, on my knees. Our lord and savior Charles Darwin that is in the great compost pile. I will sacrifice bugs on my alter in his name. I will also praise the Saints J. I. Rodale and Sir Albert Howard of organic gardening. I will send all weeds to live forever in the pit of burning hell. I will also spurn the blasphemers that praise the use of chemical fertilizers and herbicides. We will all meet again in the great compost piles of recycled life on our blessed Earth.
Amen
Be careful of ANY lunatics, whether they seek a profit or not :)
Mphf ha h ho heh ahhh ha ... Dan
--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

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Got to admire your enthusiasm. Want to turn around so that I can cinch-up your buckle a little bit more? ;O)
--

Billy
Kleptocrats Behind Bars
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Aluckyguess wrote:

Is producing pollution that affects other organisms and climate not harming the earth? Is the human-caused extinction of species not harming the earth?
How long would you be prepared to wait for the eco-system to re-balance? What do you think would be happening to humanity while you wait?
David
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What is balance? What about the ice age. There were dinosaurs when they went did that balance things. You don't understand the big picture. We are insignificant, just a small spec in time. Humans will come and we will go.
Why do you think our eco-system is out of balance, Al gore? This whole global warming thing is a crock. We should put money into more important things.
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Aluckyguess wrote:

Your definition of "harm" is so odd that I doubt we can have much conversation about it.

Sure there are non man-made changes in the environment, some take place over millions of years, this is no reason to assume that man-made ones don't exist or will never be significant.

Well the facts simply don't support that. The numbers of humans and our capacity to effect change in the environment are now such that we can and will influence the future of the planet. But if you cannot see that destroying species (just as one example) is harmful we are not even on the same page about exhausting resources, large scale pollution and over-population.

If we take up your philosophy obscenely large numbers will have a fine chance of going - and right soon. Why are you so fatalistic?

From the evidence that I see from many sources, Gore is just one speaker, the issue does not hinge on the veracity of Gore or if you like him or his politics. I don't follow him or anybody faithfully. There is much more to this than climate change although that is a big issue.

Tell me who told you that global warming was a crock and why do you believe them?
Even if climate change wasn't happening it would still be worth developing renewable energy sources as the current ones are going to become impossibly expensive fairly soon. If you think that there are more important things to spend money on than securing stable and affordable energy sources into the future please say what they are.
David
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What important things could the "insignificant, small spec in time" invest in?
To the best of my knowledge, we are the only species that thinks and communicates conceptually (symbolically, if you will). Maybe not the jewel in the crown of bio-diversity but still not something to be squandered by being herded over the edge of our own grave and into extinction. If global warming is a "crock" and we resist it, we may look silly. If global warming is real and we do nothing, we could be history. What would you bet on, silly or gone?
In my travels, most of the people that I have met, just want to get along. This attitude seems lost on governments, all of which seem to be run by people with a sense of entitlement.
--

Billy
Kleptocrats Behind Bars
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We cant be throwing nuclear waste around that would be terrible. I just feel this global warming thing is bull. Temperatures change. We will have a ice age and they will blame it on global warming. Were does all that money go?. We have to pay some lead fee, its like 500.00 a year. I dont use lead but there might be some in something we use. Were does that money go. I guess Im just tired of all the wastefull spending and lies.
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Depends on how you define "harm" -- from the Earth's point of view.

Depends: Mosquitoes? Dinosaurs? Smallpox bacteria? Poodles? Carp? Kudzu, Crabgrass, Neighbors' kids?

As long as it takes.

Doesn't matter.
cheers
oz, non-polluting where possible -- by MY definition, of course. Yours may vary.
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wrote:

Depends on how you define "harm" -- from the Earth's point of view.

Depends: Mosquitoes? Dinosaurs? Smallpox bacteria? Poodles? Carp? Kudzu, Crabgrass, Neighbors' kids?

As long as it takes.

Doesn't matter.
cheers
oz, non-polluting where possible -- by MY definition, of course. Yours may vary.
Very nice
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Ahhh David I do love your postings, they have always been direct to the point and your insight has alway been clear. Also I tend to agree with you.
Enjoy Life ... Dan
--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

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