The curse of BER

Page 4 of 5  


And to add to the confusion;O) a foliar spray of epsom salts may increase calcium absorption, if the plant has a Mg++ deficiency.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 6/19/2010 1:24 AM, Paul M. Cook wrote:

Think I am doing the same as you except I add a handful of pelletized limestone mixed in before planting and fertilize with a mixed garden fertilizer. When BER showed up several years ago, the limestone cured it. I also water a lot but pots will drain from bottom container if excessive, like a big rain.
It's still early in the season here and correction of problem could save rest of crop.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Frank wrote:

It's been years since I had tomatos with BER. That's when I started getting my soil tested. I use dolomitic limestone to adjust the PH and it's worked fine for me for at least 25 years!!
Tom J
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 6/18/10 10:24 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote [in part]:

I'm quite sure you will not find tomato plants of the type you want growing in the wild. Even heritage tomatoes represent decades or centuries of selective breeding.
--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Paul M. Cook said:

Use *much* larger pots.
If you have a layer of gravel at the bottom of the pots "for drainage" stop doing that.
Shade the pots by setting them in a wooden box (no bottom needed) or, use large foam or double-walled pots.
Set up a drip irrigation system so the pots stay evenly moist.
Some varieties are more prone to BER than others. Sadly, this is not something that is discussed in catalog descriptions and it's rarely brought up anywhere else. That's too bad, really. It would be useful information.
'Green Zebra' is a variety that has proven to be consistantly prone to BER in my garden. Liked the tomato, but stopped growing it because of this fault. It would suffer BER when no other variety did.
Long, pointed varieties (plum tomatoes, for example) are prone to BER.
'Early Girl' may be very popular but (in my experience) it is slightly more prone to BER than other small, round, quick maturing varieties.
--
Pat in Plymouth MI

"Vegetables are like bombs packed tight with all kinds of important
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In article

Last year, a third of my San Marzanos had BER. Not a third of the plants, but a third of the crop.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

These are 18 gallon pots, they hold 2 cubic feet of soil each.

I just drilled 1/2 inch holes in the bottom for drainage. Works pretty good.

At the rate I am going my tomatoes will cost me about 20 bucks a pound. Just cut 2 more with BER.

I have Celebrity and yellow pear going at the moment. I am thinking the Celebrity is one I will not try again. The yellow pear did well last year and so far this year no BER.

I'll probably stick to patio from now on.
Paul
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Paul M. Cook said:

Yes, varieties that were developed for growing in pots would be your best bet.
--
Pat in Plymouth MI

"Vegetables are like bombs packed tight with all kinds of important
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Pat Kiewicz wrote:

I have a friend growing tomatoes in 10" to 12" pots. I know the tomato has a huge root system and I usually see them in 5 gallon paint buckets. Is she on a fools errand?

Why is that?

I've hear that some packages have BER on them to signify resistance.

Found this uber technical bit on BER:
http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/95/4/571
Any comments on eggshells? I've got a lot ground up in my soil. It would seem the calcium release would be slow, probably too slow.
Jeff

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I've got a tool loosening the sort of like a cultivation but very narrow. Why use it becomes the question. Answer the blade is made of copper and is meant to diffuse a a small amount about. Getting back to egg shells ....my compost reflects what we eat. Many shells many bones many plants. Just return simple and complex as that. I've sort of gleaned from "Teaming with Microbes" a Billy heads up that my soil favors fungi and the bacteria are trying to obtain a balance of sort. ( Poor humanoid attempt to understand life) . Just in the last two days small 1/8 inch round fungi brown and Red appears on my wood chips and on my raised bed. I smashed the red for no other reason As I equate it with poison.
--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden
What use one more wake up call?
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Nah, go for the brown ones. Some common brown wood-rotting mushrooms are deadly poisonous, but I can't think of a single red one. But are you saying a fungus that's growing on wood is also growing in the soil of your garden bed? Are there wood chips there or is there a lot of wood content in the soil? Wood-rotting fungi never grow on anything but wood. Either way, what you may actually have is a slime mold. Some of them will climb over just about anything in the yard.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Small area about 1 foot square.
Are there wood chips there or is there a lot of wood content in the

No chips but rotten wood chips turned into soil about 5 years old.
Wood-rotting fungi never grow on anything but wood.
Good news!

Don't know but found this URL below .
PS
I live in a place that has a high water table currenty 13 feet below the surface and we have a dew point of 70 F. today.
<http://people.wku.edu/charles.smith/biogeog/BISB1943.htm
"DISTRIBUTION OF FUNGI PARASITIC ON CROP PLANTS It is scarcely necessary to discuss in detail the distribution of crop diseases. Maps are now being published (24) showing the range of many. Man has been very active in assisting nature; for example, asparagus rust was enabled to establish itself from New Jersey to California in five years. A few pathogens are worthy of mention because they seem to illustrate principles. Puccinia Antirrhini, the rust of snapdragons, is native to a few wild Scrophulariaceae in the mountains of California. Soon after Antirrhinum majus was introduced there it was attacked and proved to be a very congenial host; the rust spread on snapdragons throughout the United States and Canada, and now occurs over much of Europe and in Egypt, Palestine and South Africa. The original host of Synchytrium endobioticum, the cause of wart disease of potatoes, is not known. Potatoes were in general culture in Europe for about 150 years (35) before the fungus was described on them in 1896. It then spread over northern Europe and reached Newfoundland and South Africa, but its late start permitted prevention of its spread over North America. Spongospora subterranea, another parasite of the potato, has been known for a century. It has spread far. Considerable alarm was felt in North America after it was first found in Canada in 1913, but subsequent experience demonstrated that climate almost limits it to cool regions such as those near the United States-Canada boundary in the east and west. The fungus seems to be unimportant, except perhaps at high altitudes, in Asia, Africa and South America. Possibly a consideration of the effect of climate on this and other pathogenic fungi would permit some modification of the elaborate quarantine and inspection regulations imposed by most [[p. 480]] countries. Unfortunately, we do not yet know how much faith to place in climate. Can we be sure that Claviceps purpurea will not develop in the tropics, and only in Algeria and Morocco in Africa? Cronartium ribicola has now spread over most north temperate regions where its hosts grow, Ribes and five-needle pines in association. The same is true of many another parasite of economic plants.
*********In other words, the host is of primary importance in dissemination of parasites. It would be hard to stop nature and man in their efforts to spread pathogens, were it not that climatic and other factors are also important, and may hinder as well as favor spread."*********
--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden
What use one more wake up call?
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Jeff Thies wrote:

You are correct. Eggshell as a way to increase calcium level will work - next year or the year after. Chalk dust, or even a ground-up Tums will allow the elemental calcium to get to the plant quicker. And remember, BER is 1/2 about calcium level, 1/2 about even availability of water. A good mulch layer is as important as the calcium.
Tony M.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

A balance is struck between the size of the root structure and the size of the vegetative structure. They will be about equal. Larger the roots, the larger the vegetative plant.

Ca uptake is hindered by dry soil, or very wet soil that causes the roots to rot and become dysfunctional. Ideally, the soil should make a ball, if you squeeze it in your hand, but also break apart easily between thumb and forefinger, i.e. not too dry or too wet.

I've never seen it. It seems that some F1s are marked with resistance traits.

A good article, and I thank you for it. Among other things, it says that no one is sure if calcium has a role to play in BER ;O) LOL

Slow, that's the word.

--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Jeff Thies said:

stop
Using gravel wastes space that could be filled with soil and roots, and it doesn't improve the drainage at all. The potting soil just above the gravel will be the most saturated part of the pot. It's all down to surface tension. The water doesn't drain out of the soil into the gravel until the entire bulk of the soil is over-saturated.
The pot should have a drainage hole to allow excess water to drain and that will be sufficient.
<http://www.dannylipford.com/diy-home-improvement/lawn-and - gardening/garden-myth-putting-gravel-in-pots-and-containers/>
--
Pat in Plymouth MI

"Vegetables are like bombs packed tight with all kinds of important
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Jeff Thies wrote:

Smaller pots mean smaller root systems and smaller yields. Also smaller pots dry out more quickly and so contribute to BER by varying moisture content. Your results will be compromised depending on your soil and the susceptibility of your cultivar to BER. For those who simply don't have room for a proper garden or big tubs this may be the best result possible.

It reduces the amount of useful soil for no gain, if the soil is free draining then gravel will not make any difference.

Eggshells are calcium carbonate which is only slightly soluble in water. Eggshells, marble chips and solid limestone will dissolve much more slowly than finely divided calcium carbonate such as garden lime.
David
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

    Not to be too terribly contrarian here, but you've done everything except the very _first_ thing to do when you notice symtoms of mineral imbalance: Check and correct soil pH! Second to water, pH is the major determinant of nutrients' availability to plants. In my view, the first course of action when signs of chronic mineral deprivation should be to adjust pH to neutral-to-mildly-acidic (7.0-6.5, say) and keep it there for at least 3-to-4 days -- preferrably a week -- before doing any further soil tests or adding amendments. Remember to adjust the water in which you place your soil sample to pH neutral and, while you're at it, check the pH of your irrigation water. Certainly don't simply gratuitously add stuff to the dirt ;-)     You're finding out the hard way that nutrient and mineral deficiencies are more easily prevented than corrected because most (but not all) "organic" and/or "natural" sources of nutrients are relatively low-proof and slow-release. However, to directly address your present dilemma this site, <http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/95/4/571 -- cited elsewhere in this thread -- along with advocacy of further investigation into minimum levels of Ca relative to BER and of research into genetic predisposition to BER, offers this recommendation (although, it provides no evidence of efficacy):

    I have seen liquid preparations offered as foliar spray Ca supplements but have never noted their constituents. I assume the calcium is present in an ionic form that migrates easily through foliar and/or fruit cell walls but you never know.... It might be time to retire to a garden center and read some labels.
--
the Balvenieman
USDA zone 9b; peninsular Florida, U.S.A.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Soil pH tests 6.6 and my tap water tests 7.8.

I got this product called Foli-Cal. It is calcium acetate. The garden center recommended it. I mixed it up according to instructions and doused each plant with 16 ounces. Then I got the BER a week later. So today I mixed up a batch and watered the roots with the mix.
Paul
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Damn. Then some kind of curse is all it can be. Have you really pissed somebody off? :-)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I am thinking it must be witchcraft.
Paul
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Site Timeline

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.