Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?

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Paul J. Dudley wrote:

Don't ever say never. A lot if not most of the vineyards around here (Northern Virginia / Central Maryland Area - including other areas in the Mid Atlantic) use Sevin on their vineyards.
Most commercial growers apply with an air blast sprayer so it goes EVERYWHERE. The concentration you used sounds excessive. I still recommend you contact the manufacturer and see what they say. I would still say you can use it (the sevin you mix with water) and spray the top of your canopy with a back pack sprayer.
What kind of grapes are you growing and where do you live? The earliest any grapes are ready for harvest around here are some of the whites and some of them are ready around the 2nd week in September. The reds usually are harvested around the end of September with Merlot being the first. The Cabernet Sauvignon hang until mid to late October. I am saying all this because you may have a variety than can hang longer and thus let nature wash off some of the residue.

There is one other option. You can go ahead and harvest, crush and make your wine and send it out to a lab and have them analyze it for you. They may even be able to tell you in advance what they would recommend without even testing it and charging you. Virginia Tech has a enology program and a lab. You may want to give them a call and state your problem.
http://www.fst.vt.edu/extension/enology/index.html
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On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:05:43 -0400, "Paul J. Dudley"

There is no telling how long the active particles which entered the cells will persist. It's not a matter of washing off what you can see as dust or powder on the grapes themselves. Sevin can enter cells and if it were me, which it wouldn't be due to the nature of my no pesticides at all, I would not eat or use the grapes for anything.
A little story:
My neighbor had breast cancer and was a nine year survivor. She planted some Mountain Laurels and bag worms appeared. If she asked me first I'd have told her to use a simple pathogen called Bt. No harm to anything but the worms.
However, her other neighbor who is an "agronimist" gave her Sevin in a pump up sprayer. She read no label, and had no idea about what she was spraying. She did not have her legs or arms covered and she started to burn terribly and she jumped into my pool to get rid of the stinging. Not one year later she relapsed and is now in stage four, metasticized breast cancer, spread to her sternum and the lining of her lungs. She goes to M.D. Anderson in Houston for treatment. She hangs on by a thread. Did the Sevin do it? I don't know. However, I will never use it. I'd give up the grapes and put them in the trash so not even animals can eat them.
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Jangchub wrote:

Your story about the neighbor getting burned has nothing to do with this issue. Your neighbor did not take the proper precautions to cover herself, and use a breathing mask.
The issue here is one of retention of the chemical. You have given no evidence of your theory that Sevin penetrates the skin of the grape. I don't believe that. Waiting several weeks after application should elimanate the danger. The Sun and rain will burn and wash off the chemical, plus it will naturally lose it's toxicity. He should check with the manufacturers for confirmation, but I think he is ok with Sevin. He can wash the fruit as he said to be extra sure.
Sherwin
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"Paul J. Dudley" wrote:

Didn't you read the directions... that's the dumbest method for applying Sevin.
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On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:27:39 -0700, Sheldon wrote:

The dust was given to me in a mason jar by my girlfriends father, complete with no instructions. Just toss it across the whole of the vine like he does his peach trees. So that is what I did.
If you don't have anything more constructive to offer than your sarcastic critisism, please keep it to yourself.
= Paul
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On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:34:46 -0400, "Paul J. Dudley"

Your girlfriends father is a moron.
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You'll probably take this as more sarcastic criticism, but stories like this are why I'm not sure most people should be allowed to use other than a flyswatter as a pesticide.
You accepted an unlabeled jar of unknown chemical of unknown concentration, with no instructions, and you didn't know how to apply it.
How do you know it was carbaryl, and not, say, Paris green? Or maybe one of the herbicides? Or flour?
Some day, a stunt like this is going to bite you badly. This might be that.
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Kay Lancaster wrote:

Why don't you offer constructive advice instead of bashing. I would be willing to bet YOU are equally guilty of being ignorant on a specific topic equally as hazardous or even more so.
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On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:04:13 -0400, "Paul E. Lehmann"

It would seem an almost unanimous decision and opinion here that you chuck the grapes you applied a very toxic poison to. Sevin is advertised using lies, lies and more lies and people have been gardening for decades, some professionally, some avidly, some used to use these pesticides who no longer use them because they found out the truth about them over the years.
Constructive as I can be without crawling on my hands and knees begging:
Do NOT use these tainted grapes. Chalk it up to a big mistake, period.
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Jangchub wrote:

Yes, it's all a conspiracy. They are out to get us.
Sherwin
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wrote:

mostly your money. they certainly don't care if the food is safe to eat or if the product poisons water or soil. profit is the sole motive. if you choose to give them more profit, that's your business, but keep your nasty poisoned food away (far away) from me & my farm. thanks.
lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
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wrote:

Who is "they??"
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On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:04:13 -0400, Paul E. Lehmann

I did, Dippy, in my first post. If you're going to use a pesticide, make sure you follow the label directions. No label. Mason jar. This is playing chemical Russian Roulette. And it's a violation of US federal law. And if this wasn't in the US, then it's likely to have violated the laws of most other countries.
Not to mention the law of common sense: you don't keep toxic materials in a food container. Especially not an unlabeled food container.
Learn from your mistakes. If you can.
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You know, that WAS constructive, but you're too defensive atm to see it. Next time you want to use a chemical on a crop,
1. Make sure it has a label 2. Read the label, so you know the concentration, 3. Read the instructions, so that you: 4. Know how to apply it.
Finally, you screwed up. Be an adult, take your lumps because you deserve 'em, say "You're right and now I know better." Don't whinge about it. The world won't always be a touch-feely warm little place where someone can make everything ok.
Chris
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Chris wrote:

Please tell me HOW I screwed up by advising the OP to:
1) talk to the folks at Virginia Tech and possibly submit a sample for their lab to analyze
2) talk to his county agriculture agent and or to
3) get information from the manufacturer.
Some county agriculture agencies have programs for certification and education on the use of pesticides and fungicides.
My advice was to get the FACTS and was NOT based on some knee jerk reaction like those you expouse.

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My mistake. I should have written that to the original poster. You provided sound advice. Sorry for the mixup.
Chris
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On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 05:28:15 -0700, Chris wrote:

OK.. You're 100% correct. I goofed - f'd up - etc.
Checking with the fellow who gave me the dust - Sevin-5%. Being is he is 85 yo and farmed all his life, when he said to toss the stuff, I did as he suggested.
I have written to gardentech.com ( the makers of Sevin-5 ) and am waiting for a reply. I checked with my neighbor who uses the stuff and read the instructions on the back and of course it said to use appropriet dispenser. It also said that the preharvest interval was 7 days for grapes. Looking through www.gardentech.com/sevin_fastfacts.asp
Q : How does Sevin control insects?     A: Sevin has a dual mode-of-action - it works on contact and through     ingestion. Sevin is non-systemic, which means it does not penetrate     plant tissue - it stays on the outside. After controlling the     targeted pest, Sevin is easily broken down in the environment.
I know, I know now - day late an' a buck short... I should have done the necessary reading ahead of time etc. And I should have told Mr Red " Just toss it on - are you crazy ol' man! - do you know how them posters will growl if I don't take all precautions and need advice because I didn't follow instructions and protocol..."
I've used newsgroups in one form or other since DEC-NOTES. I can honestly say that I never did pick apart everything a poster wrote that I found fault with. If I couldn't offer some form of suggestion or help, I move on to the next post. And then I remember the flame wars that started taking place - people who just loved to tear everything apart and find fault. Mispelled words, improper grammar, you name it - not having a damned thing to do with the posters original query. Pre-spam spammers. But it's ok. Take what I need - leave the rest. And I am not referring to your own reply, there was useful input offered. Thank you - it will help in the future - but really did not focus on my query - grapes good or bad now that I f'd up.
= Paul
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On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:34:46 -0400, "Paul J. Dudley"

Sheesh.....besides poisoning our world, you are too effing careless to effectively use even a sockpuppet, Ima Paul Dudley Goodguy.
I'm sure as hell glad you aren't my neighbor, Poisoner of Bees, Spiders, Butterflies and Other Helpful and Harmless Living Creatures.....such as your Neighbors!!
Charlie
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Charlie wrote:

Get a life, Charlie. Offer CONSTRUCTIVE advice or join the ranks of the "holier than thou" For example, there are a LOT of bee keepers who use chemicals every bit as risky as the OP used.
Has ANY one of you doom and gloomers ever given the advice such as CONTACT YOUR LOCAL AGRICULTURE EXTENSION AGENT and ask for THEIR advice and opinion. Of course not. You have your own agenda.
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On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:09:58 -0400, "Paul E. Lehmann"

Yawn...OK, I will...join the ranks of the holier than thou, that is.
And sorry to say, Paul, I'll post as I see fit, according to my "agenda" and not according to your demands. I also intend to keep my life and help my grandchildren keep theirs by doing what I can to keep morons from contaminating their food with poison.

Golly, I guess that makes it just hunky-dory okie-dokie to spread poison about the planet. Thanks for the heads up and the excellant argument justifying the use of such, Paul.
Tell me, how do you feel about irradiated food? :-)
I gots me all sorts of them kinds of questions I would like to ponder you head with, but I thinks I gots yer number already, son. ;-)

"I'm from the gummint and I am here to help you".....uh huh, oh yeah!
They do have some good plans for hogsheds, though.
This statement of yours shows your lack of understanding or care about such things as three-legged frogs and declining bird populations and cancers and all sorts of funky shit that is happening on account of, well, you know. But I didn't get this information from monsatano or dow or bayer or any of their front guys, like the usda and fda and....so I guess it is just doom and gloom bullshit.

Yep, that agenda being the speaking out about the use of toxins that contribute to the toxically over-burdened planet and that contribute to the bodily toxic load we and our children and grandchildren must suffer on account of the ignorance and greed of people such as yourself and the sockpuppet and all the minions of the agrochemical cartel who advocate the use of toxins.
Hmmm....I wonder how wine was produced before the advent of carbaryl?
Doom, Doom, Doom....can you hear the drums, Paul?
Charlie
"You just caught me on a good night. I'm doing what I was made to do - and I've got a feeling I'm going to do it even better this time" - Captain Billy Tyne
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