Seven dust - Applied a month ago - Still toxic or not ?

[Paul E. Lehmann]

Get a life, Charlie. Offer CONSTRUCTIVE advice or join the ranks of the "holier than thou" For example, there are a LOT of bee keepers who use chemicals every bit as risky as the OP used.

Has ANY one of you doom and gloomers ever given the advice such as CONTACT YOUR LOCAL AGRICULTURE EXTENSION AGENT and ask for THEIR advice and opinion. Of course not. You have your own agenda.

[Charlie]

Yawn...OK, I will...join the ranks of the holier than thou, that is.

And sorry to say, Paul, I'll post as I see fit, according to my "agenda" and not according to your demands. I also intend to keep my life and help my grandchildren keep theirs by doing what I can to keep morons from contaminating their food with poison.

Golly, I guess that makes it just hunky-dory okie-dokie to spread poison about the planet. Thanks for the heads up and the excellant argument justifying the use of such, Paul.

Tell me, how do you feel about irradiated food? :-)

I gots me all sorts of them kinds of questions I would like to ponder you head with, but I thinks I gots yer number already, son. ;-)

"I'm from the gummint and I am here to help you".....uh huh, oh yeah!

They do have some good plans for hogsheds, though.

This statement of yours shows your lack of understanding or care about such things as three-legged frogs and declining bird populations and cancers and all sorts of funky shit that is happening on account of, well, you know. But I didn't get this information from monsatano or dow or bayer or any of their front guys, like the usda and fda and....so I guess it is just doom and gloom bullshit.

Yep, that agenda being the speaking out about the use of toxins that contribute to the toxically over-burdened planet and that contribute to the bodily toxic load we and our children and grandchildren must suffer on account of the ignorance and greed of people such as yourself and the sockpuppet and all the minions of the agrochemical cartel who advocate the use of toxins.

Hmmm....I wonder how wine was produced before the advent of carbaryl?

Doom, Doom, Doom....can you hear the drums, Paul?

Charlie

"You just caught me on a good night. I'm doing what I was made to do - and I've got a feeling I'm going to do it even better this time" - Captain Billy Tyne

[Jangchub]

There is no telling how long the active particles which entered the cells will persist. It's not a matter of washing off what you can see as dust or powder on the grapes themselves. Sevin can enter cells and if it were me, which it wouldn't be due to the nature of my no pesticides at all, I would not eat or use the grapes for anything.

A little story:

My neighbor had breast cancer and was a nine year survivor. She planted some Mountain Laurels and bag worms appeared. If she asked me first I'd have told her to use a simple pathogen called Bt. No harm to anything but the worms.

However, her other neighbor who is an "agronimist" gave her Sevin in a pump up sprayer. She read no label, and had no idea about what she was spraying. She did not have her legs or arms covered and she started to burn terribly and she jumped into my pool to get rid of the stinging. Not one year later she relapsed and is now in stage four, metasticized breast cancer, spread to her sternum and the lining of her lungs. She goes to M.D. Anderson in Houston for treatment. She hangs on by a thread. Did the Sevin do it? I don't know. However, I will never use it. I'd give up the grapes and put them in the trash so not even animals can eat them.

[Jangchub]

Gallo wine is and has been a completely certified organic product for decades.

[Jangchub]

It would seem an almost unanimous decision and opinion here that you chuck the grapes you applied a very toxic poison to. Sevin is advertised using lies, lies and more lies and people have been gardening for decades, some professionally, some avidly, some used to use these pesticides who no longer use them because they found out the truth about them over the years.

Constructive as I can be without crawling on my hands and knees begging:

Do NOT use these tainted grapes. Chalk it up to a big mistake, period.

[Jangchub]

You mean the Land Grant Universities who are paid by Monsanto, Dow Elanco and Bayer to "test" and evaluate their latest carcinogens? NOT.

[Billy]

It was pretty good when they used amphoras and fumarias. But then they severed the wine in these very pretty lead glazed cups and a Gothic night descended on Europe. Things (flavor) started looking up again in the mid-1600s when cork stoppers came into use. In the mean, time beer and wine saved Europe from the main diseases of ground water. The same function that tea served in the East.

Paul should check with the nearest ag consultant but my understanding is that nothing harmful to man can survive fermentation. All the same, you've been a naughty boy Paul. I know it wasn't your intent to bring about the downfall of Western Civilization (such as it is). You've got to be careful about unintended consequences. See that this doesn't happen again.

[Billy]

Eeeeeh. The good news: Organic wine is a growing trend. Gallo, the largest U.S. winemaker with 33% market share, currently has 2,700 of its

9,000 total acreage organically certified. Bad news: Gallo buys 2/3 of California grapes, mostly from the bulk wine area of the "Central Vally". Most Gallo wine isn't certified organic. Which isn't to say that it isn't drinkable. Most of it is simply "California" (anywhere in California) not necessarily one of the premium, cooler, wine growing regions like North Coast or Central Coast or Alexander Valley or Edna Valley.

The last I checked (2003) the following local wineries were organic to some extent.

The following wineries have been ranked as: all organic vineyard and no sulfites wines, all organic vineyard wines, bio-dynamic vineyards, and organic vineyards

In order for a wine to qualify as organic, it must have just 10 parts (or fewer) per million sulfites.

----------------------------------------------- All organic vineyard and no sulfites wines

H. Coturri & Sons LTD. Visits by appointment All wines made from organically-grown grapes, with no sulfites or other preservatives added. P.O. Box 396 6725 Enterprise Rd., Glen Ellen, CA 95442, Telephone: [phone] Fax:[phone] e-mail: [e-mail] web site -

1979 Wines: Albarello, Merlot, Pinot Noir, Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Sauvignon/Sangiovese, Sangiovese, Zinfandel

Frey Vineyards All wines made from organically-grown grapes, with no sulfites added. Tastings by appointment only

14000 Tomki Rd, Redwood Valley CA 95470 Tel: [phone], Fax: [phone] web site - Email: [e-mail] Tastings by appointment only. Chardonnay, Sauvignon Blanc,Gewurztraminer, Natural White, Blush, Sauvignon Blanc, Zinfandel, Cabernet Sauvignon, Syrah, Petite Sirah, Pinot, Merlot, Natural Red

other wineries that produce wines without sulfites:

Orleans Hill Vintners Association, P.O. Box 1254, Woodland, CA 95776 Tel: [phone] FAX: [phone] Founded 1980

La Rocca Vineyards, P.O. Box 541, Forest Ranch, CA 95942 Winery: 12360Doe Mill Rd., Forest Ranch, CA 95942 Tel: [phone], Fax: [phone] e-mail: [e-mail] web site:

Founded 1984

Vinatura,

819 J Street, Arcata, CA 95501 Tel.: [phone]

Honeyrun

2309 Park Ave., Chico, CA 95928 Phone: [phone] Fax: [phone]

The Organic Wine Works/Hallcrest Vineyards

379 Felton Empire Rd., Felton, CA 95018 Phone: [phone] or [phone] Fax: [phone] Hours: Daily 11am-5:30pm

---------------------- All organic vineyard wines

Fetzer Vineyards/Bonterra Vineyards All Bonterra wines made from organically-grown, CCOF-certified grapes

13601 Eastside Rd., Hopland, CA 95449 Tel.: [phone] ext. 604, or 707.744.7600 ext. 604 e-mail from web site web site - Chardonnay, Cabernet Sauvignon, Syrah, Viognier, Sangiovese

Frog's Leap All wines made from organically-grown, CCOF-certified grapes P.O. Box 189,

8815 Conn Creek Road, Rutherford CA 94573 Tel: [phone] or [phone] Fax: [phone] e-mail: [e-mail] web site - Zinfandel, Chardonnay, Leapfrogsmilch, Sauvignon Blanc, Cabernet Sauvignon, Rutherford (Cabernet Sauvignon/Cabernet Franc )

Lolonis Winery (No chemical pesticides since 1956.) All wines made from organically-grown, CCOF-certified grapes Mailing Address:

1904 Olympic Blvd., Ste. 8A, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Winery: 1905 Road D, Redwood Valley, CA Tel: Sales & Mktg. Off. [phone] Fax: [phone] e-mail: [e-mail] web site - : Founded 1962 Wines: Chardonnay, Sauvignon Blanc, Viognier, Merlot, Pinot Noir, Cabernet Sauvignon, Valdiguie, Petit Syrah, Zinfandel, Cabernet Franc

Madonna Estate Mont St. John All wines made from organically-grown, CCOF-certified grapes

5400 Old Sonoma Rd. Napa, CA 94559 Tel: [phone] Fax [phone] e-mail: [e-mail] web site - 1977 Wines: Chardonnay, Pinot Noir, Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon, Pinot Grigio, Johannisberg Riesling, Gewurztraminer and Muscat di Canelli

Napa Wine Company All wines made from organically-grown, CCOF-certified grapes Tastings are available by appointment P.O. Box 434

7830 - 40 St. Helena Hwy, Oakville, Ca 94562 Tel: [phone] or [phone] e-mail: [e-mail]. web site - Sauvignon Blanc, Pinot Blanc, Cabernet Sauvignon

Vigil Vineyards Estate Reserve Terra Vin is made from organically-grown, CCOF-certified grapes

3340 Hwy. 128, Calistoga CA 94515 Tel: [phone] e-mail: [e-mail] web site - Estate Reserve Terra Vin (Zinfandel/Carignan/Refosco)

Yorkville Cellars All wines made from organically-grown, CCOF-certified grapes

5701 Highway 128 P.O. Box Three Yorkville (population 146), CA 95494 USA Tel: [phone] Fax: [phone] e-mail: [e-mail] web site - Sauvignon Blanc, Semillon, Eleanor of Aquitaine (Semillon/Sauvignon Blanc), Cabernet Franc, Malbec, Petit Verdot, Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon, Richard the Lion-Heart (Cabernet Franc/Malbec/Petit Verdot/Merlot/Cabernet Sauvignon)

---------------------------------------------------------------

Bio-dynamic vineyards

Benziger Family Winery and Everett Ridge Vineyard's are now using biodynamic farming practices. Benziger Family Winery at their Sonoma Mountain Estate Vineyards and all of Everett Ridge Vineyard's grapes. Everett Ridge Vineyards were certified organic from CCOF in 1999. Inquire at the wineries to determine if blending from non-organic vineyards occurred.

Benziger Family Winery

1883 London Ranch Rd. Glen Ellen, CA 95442 (707) 935 - 3000 - voice (707) 935 - 3016 - fax e-mail: [e-mail] web site - Ridge Vineyards and Winery 435 West Dry Creek Road, Healdsburg CA 95448 Tel: [phone] Fax [phone] e-mail: [e-mail] web site - Vineyards

The following wineries have, in total or in part, organic vineyards. This however does not mean that grapes from non-organic vineyards were not blended into their wines. Inquire at the wineries.

Davis Bynum Winery

8075 Westside Road Healdsburg, California 95448 Tasting Room: [phone] Tel: [phone] Fax: [phone] e-mail: [e-mail] web site - Kenwood Vineyards P.O. Box 447 Kenwood, CA 95452 Tel: [phone] Fax: [phone] e-mail: [e-mail] web site - 'RE CERTIFIED ORGANIC! March 14, 1996 Three of Kenwood's vineyards are certified organic: Kenwood Estate Vineyard, Yulupa Vineyard, and Upper Weise Kenwood wines are bottled they are in a range of twenty-five to thirty-five parts per million free sulfites.

[Sherwin]

Your story about the neighbor getting burned has nothing to do with this issue. Your neighbor did not take the proper precautions to cover herself, and use a breathing mask.

The issue here is one of retention of the chemical. You have given no evidence of your theory that Sevin penetrates the skin of the grape. I don't believe that. Waiting several weeks after application should elimanate the danger. The Sun and rain will burn and wash off the chemical, plus it will naturally lose it's toxicity. He should check with the manufacturers for confirmation, but I think he is ok with Sevin. He can wash the fruit as he said to be extra sure.

Sherwin

[Sherwin]

I know people who apply Sevin that way. They do it because it is simpler than mixing up a batch for the sprayer. This is practical when you have a small plant or area to treat. Does it say on the label that applying the poweder is dangerous?

Sherwin

[Sherwin]

Yes, it's all a conspiracy. They are out to get us.

Sherwin

[Sherwin]

A good friend of mine raises bees on his urban property (fairly small) and has been spraying chemicals (wisely) for years. The bees don's seem to mind.

Sherwin

[Sherwin]

Yep, they are all out to get us.

Sherwin

[Kay Lancaster]

I did, Dippy, in my first post. If you're going to use a pesticide, make sure you follow the label directions. No label. Mason jar. This is playing chemical Russian Roulette. And it's a violation of US federal law. And if this wasn't in the US, then it's likely to have violated the laws of most other countries.

Not to mention the law of common sense: you don't keep toxic materials in a food container. Especially not an unlabeled food container.

Learn from your mistakes. If you can.

[Paul E. Lehmann]

Captain

Billy

Tyne

Charlie

I gave the 1) Contact the manufacturer. If they say it is safe that does not mean that one should stop there. If they say chuck the grapes then by all means do it.

2) I suggested calling the viticulture experts at Virginia tech and or making the wine and sending them a sample for testing.

3) Contacting the OP's local agriculture extension agent.

YOU have given YOUR personal opinion based on nothing but shit house rumors and NOT science.

[enigma]

Sherwin wrote in news:hLmdndG_3s6xUhvVnZ2dnUVZ [e-mail]:

mostly your money. they certainly don't care if the food is safe to eat or if the product poisons water or soil. profit is the sole motive. if you choose to give them more profit, that's your business, but keep your nasty poisoned food away (far away) from me & my farm. thanks.

lee

[Chris]

You know, that WAS constructive, but you're too defensive atm to see it. Next time you want to use a chemical on a crop,

1. Make sure it has a label
2. Read the label, so you know the concentration,
3. Read the instructions, so that you:
4. Know how to apply it.

Finally, you screwed up. Be an adult, take your lumps because you deserve 'em, say "You're right and now I know better." Don't whinge about it. The world won't always be a touch-feely warm little place where someone can make everything ok.

Chris

[Paul J. Dudley]

I understand that they also burned sulfur wicks in their casks much like adding sodium metabisulfite as many ( can't say 'all' - might start another flame war ) now do.

But ... Yes .. I promise to be more careful in the future ( .. so I won't start the world whining again ).

I will chech with the aggies. I have written gardentech.com ( the company that forced me to use their dust ) and am waiting their reply.

= Paul =

[Paul E. Lehmann]

Please tell me HOW I screwed up by advising the OP to:

1) talk to the folks at Virginia Tech and possibly submit a sample for their lab to analyze

2) talk to his county agriculture agent and or to

3) get information from the manufacturer.

Some county agriculture agencies have programs for certification and education on the use of pesticides and fungicides.

My advice was to get the FACTS and was NOT based on some knee jerk reaction like those you expouse.

[Billy]

Sulfur candles were used before there was a written language. As luck would have it, SO2 is heavier than air. Sulfur wicks are still used to burn in barrels before they are stored empty although the trend is towards compressed gas.