Salvaging - A Closer Look

Start 4 of 16

Tornado's And Salvaging

Note: the Silviculture mentioned with restoration - I will use the definition for salvaging from a website from a recognized consulting forester in Texas, which I would assume is a forestry industry standard.

"Salvage and restoration. There comes a time when nature just does not cooperate with the best of management efforts. At that time you may have to salvage whats left, and start anew. Salvage is a very different sales effort for forest products. Usually, the sales material is damaged, dead, or dying. Finding a market for this material can be tricky, and incomes low. But, best to move the material, get it out of the way for future work. Take what income you can from the salvage, and set it aside for planting the site."

I accept the person's definition, however, I disagree that you can plant a forest as well as the statement that you may have to remove what is left, which in this case would be the old growth conditions (Tionesta). I use the Tionesta Scenic Area in the Allegheny National Forest as a control. It had a tornado go through in around 1986 and most recently had a blow down. As far as I know nothing has been removed and all ecological stages of trees exist. I did soil sampling in that area in the rhizoplane.

What tornados do not do, verses doing the following after a tornado. In other words what would salvaging wood from a tornado swath achieve - I.e., not limited too but including -

As pertaining too: Browsing and Sensitive Plants

A quick note: Salvaging has been noted to be the primary cause linked to reforestation problems where studies on Salvaging were done (NOT DEER). NATIONAL WOOD FIBER NEEDS indicate substantial increases in demand for wood fiber - based products. This demand has resulted in increased efforts to remove all available fiber at harvesting sites. Intensive fiber removal or intense wildfire potentially reduces the parent materials (duff and wood residues) available for the production of organic reserves in forest soils. This reserve, primarily in the form of humus, decayed wood, and charcoal, has been shown critical to the support of both nonsymbiotic nitrogen fixing and ectomycorrhizal activities in forest soils of western Montana. Harvest and fire-caused reductions of organic materials on and in northern forest soils have been linked to reforestation problems. This study was undertaken to provide a preliminary estimate of the impact of varying amounts and kinds of soil organic matter on ectomycorrhizal development in mature western Montana forests (Harvey, Jurgensen and Larsen, 1981).

Salvaging this area of symplast maintaining, would remove ectomycorrhizal tree hosts which would remove the energy source of ectomycorrhizal fungi, which will not fruit without their host plants. Preservation of a threatened or endangered species involves preservation of its habitat and the diversity that habitat entails. When such becomes a goal of forest management, managers need information not only on owls or small mammals, but also on the mycorrhizal fungi that form the base of the food web (Amaranthus, Trappe and Bednar, 1994).

Salvaging this area would remove the host for fungi such as Ganoderma Tsuga (symplastless hemlock and pine). Fungi feeders, E.g., In the Northwest - California red-backed voles to black tailed deer, may obtain some of their protein nitrogen from decaying trees by feeding on fungal fruiting bodies, such as what some call truffles and mushrooms (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg

36-par 3). Salvaging this area may increase browsing on other plants. Also some other plants may be eaten for moisture during dryer times where moisture reservoirs are few or non.

Salvaging this area would be removal of mature and maturing trees which conserve essential elements, whereas the area containing new very young planted trees following salvaging are susceptible to erosion and essential element loss (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg5-par3).

Salvaging this area would remove deeper, multi layered canopies, larger accumulations, of coarse woody debris (any symplastless standing or fallen tree stem at least 4 inches in diameter at breast height (D.B.H.) on snags and at the large end on fallen trees), and removes chances of more specialized plants and animals (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg5-par3).

Salvaging this area would remove material and removing its ability to interact with the plants and animals of the forest floor and soil over a long period of forest successional history. Large fallen trees can take more than 400 years to become incorporated into the forest floor (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988,pg37-last par). Without this massive part of an organism, how do the associates function?

Salvaging this area would remove material that would have greatly influenced subsequent diversity of both external and internal plant and animal habitats (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg41-par4).

Salvaging this area would remove materials that would have provided a changing spectrum of habitats over many decades, even centuries (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg41-par4).

Salvaging this area would remove material that would have provided diversity within a given successional stage and forms a physical-chemical link through the many successional stages of a forest (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg41-par4).

Salvaging this area would remove the processes CWD would have with its environment through internal surface areas.

Salvaging this area would remove the needed material that certain organisms have the job to enter and gain entrance to the interior, which they consume and break down wood cells and fibers. (Hey, this is why they were created) Which the larger organisms - mites, collembolans, spiders, millipedes, centipedes, amphibians, and small mammals must await the creation of internal spaces before they can enter (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin,

1988, pg42-par2).

Salvaging alters the flow of plant and animal populations, air, water, and essential elements which would have proceeded if salvaging was not done and would have increased as decomposition continued. (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg42-par2). The point, if you please, is that when you remove the masses of CWD you disrupt, deplete thus causing dysfunction (leading to Death by means of Killing) the designed essential environmental health needs of plant, animal populations, air, water and essential elements. Than man claims that the system is not returning to the conditions prior Salvaging (given many fancy names), then points the finger to deer claiming they are responsible for the problem. The problem is that things big and small are leaving this planet. As latter statements mention, much needed material for health is removed in salvaging which would have benefited the deer and system. Why not call the forest a deer system (heart - lungs - liver - kidneys - feet = parts of system) Man is the only known organism that makes decisions regarding trees out of the ignorance of tree biology and than adds insult to injury.

Salvaging this area would remove tree parts that would have created and maintained diversity in forest communities (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe, and Franklin, 1988, pg44-par3).

Salvaging this area would remove material that would have resided on the once fertile forest floor for long periods, would have added to spatial, chemical, and biotic diversity of forest soils, and to the processes that maintain long-term forest productivity (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe, and Franklin, 1988, pg44-par3).

Salvaging then is reducing spatial, chemical, and biotic diversity of forest soils, and the processes that maintain long-term forest productivity (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe, and Franklin, 1988, pg44-par3).

Salvaging this area would remove material that that partly would have maintain the once fertile forest floors diversity which is partly maintained by windthrown trees that create a pit-and-mound topography as they are uprooted (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg45-fig2.7).

Salvaging this area would remove material that would have functioned seedbeds or nurse logs for some trees species and many species of bryophytes, fungi, and lichens, and some flowering plants (Table 7.6) (Samuelsson et al. 1994; D.F. Fraser, pers. comm., 1995; E.C. Lea, pers. comm., 1995) (Voller and Harrison, 1998).

Conclusion: Without a doubt, the removal of CWD is the primary agent, which alters the system in which problems are blamed on secondary agents such as deer. Although there is a serious case of denial such as unobserved with the Painter Run Windthrow Salvage Project? We know many animals such as deer and bear use CWD for food supply. "Harvest and fire-caused reductions of organic materials on and in northern forest soils have been linked to reforestation problems (Harvey, Jurgensen and Larsen, 1981).

End of 4 of 16

Start 5 of 16

Tornado's And Salvaging

Note: the Silviculture mentioned with restoration - I will use the definition for salvaging from a website from a recognized consulting forester in Texas, which I would assume is a forestry industry standard.

"Salvage and restoration. There comes a time when nature just does not cooperate with the best of management efforts. At that time you may have to salvage whats left, and start anew. Salvage is a very different sales effort for forest products. Usually, the sales material is damaged, dead, or dying. Finding a market for this material can be tricky, and incomes low. But, best to move the material, get it out of the way for future work. Take what income you can from the salvage, and set it aside for planting the site."

I accept the person's definition, however, I disagree that you can plant a forest as well as the statement that you may have to remove what is left, which in this case would be the old growth conditions (Tionesta). I use the Tionesta Scenic Area in the Allegheny National Forest as a control. It had a tornado go through in around 1986 and most recently had a blow down. As far as I know nothing has been removed and all ecological stages of trees exist. I did soil sampling in that area in the rhizoplane.

What tornados do not do, verses doing the following after a tornado. In other words what would salvaging wood from a tornado swath achieve - I.e., not limited too but including -

I do repeat at times. I believe it to be of interest.

As pertaining too: Plant Bio-Diversity / Threatened and Endangered Species

Salvaging this area of ectomycorrhizal tree hosts would remove the energy source of ectomycorrhizal fungi which will not fruit without their host plants Preservation of a threatened or endangered species involves preservation of its habitat and the diversity that habitat entails. When such becomes a goal of forest management, managers need information not only on owls or small mammals, but also on the mycorrhizal fungi that form the base of the food web (Amaranthus, Trappe and Bednar, 1994).

Salvaging this area would remove essentials for plants. E.g., We know some plants are likely, obligate CWD user such as Red Hackberry (Vaccinium parvifolium) (Voller and Harrison, 1998).

Salvaging this area would remove what would result in windthrown trees. Forest floor diversity is partly maintained by windthrown trees that create a pit-and-mound topography as they are uprooted (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg34-par2).

Salvaging this area would remove parts and processes of decomposition of fallen trees which releases essential elements for microbial and plant growth (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg36-par1).

Salvaging this area would remove , regardless of size - materials that would take a considerably longer time to decompose than would needle and leaf duff. Needles, leaves, and small twigs decompose faster than larger woody material and essential elements are thereby recycled faster in the forest floor (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg37-last par).

Salvaging this area would remove material that would, as it falls, be cycling essential elements for more than 400 years until such trees would become incorporated into the forest floor (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe, and Franklin, 1988, pg37-last par). And then, still plays key roles in rainbows of humic acids and horizons.

Salvaging, therefore, this area, would remove the interaction of CWD with the plants and animals of the forest floor and soil over a long period of forest and stand successional history (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin,

1988, pg37-last par).

Certainly our knowledge of biological processes and their interactions within forest is incomplete, and we know too little about the cumulative effect of a wide range of stresses on the ecosystem (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg1-par2).

Salvaging this area would break connections. Integrative research at the ecosystem level shows clearly that the many processes operating within forest inter-connect in important ways. Further, diversity of microscopic and macroscopic plant and animal species is a key factor in maintaining these processes (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988,pg1-par2).

Salvaging this area would remove dying and symplastless wood, which would have provided one of the two or three greatest resources for animal species in a natural forest. If fallen timber and slightly decayed trees are removed the whole system is gravely impoverished of perhaps more than a fifth of its fauna (Maser and Trappe, 1984,pg1-par1). (These treatments (salvaging), plus several other treatments, are done on the Allegheny National Forest routinely by the USFS and called "reforestation"???)

Salvaging this area would remove material that would have offered multitudes of both external and internal habitats that would have changed and yet persisted through the decades. One needs an understanding of the synergistic effects of constant small changes within a persistent large structure to appreciate the dynamics of a fallen tree and its function in an ecosystem (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 17-par 1).

Salvaging this area would remove present and future symplastless storehouses for moisture, especially when soil contact is made, which were designed and would have provided moisture, for plants and animals during dry times such as summer, so called, drought. (Page-Dumroese, Harvey, Jurgensen and Graham,

1991). Lack of water, during dry times, can be the limiting factor for plant, animal and entire species survival (STEW - Space, Temp, Elements and Water). If you would like me to describe the functions of STEW with respect to stress and strain [ please ask ].

Salvaging increases soil erosion. Salvaging effects soil development in an unhealthy fashion. Salvaging this area would remove designed storehouses for essential elements and water for soil, animals and plants. Salvaging would remove a potentially large source of energy (nutrients) and essential elements. Salvaging this area would remove seedbeds for plants. Salvaging this area would remove important habitat for fungi and arthropods. We know, During decomposition, logs and other forms of coarse woody debris (CWD) reduce erosion, affect soil development, store essential elements and water, are a potentially large source of energy (nutrients) and essential elements, serve as a seed bed for plants, and form an important habitat for fungi and arthropods (Kropp, 1982).

Salvaging this area would stop the processes, which would take place between a fallen tree and its surroundings, which would have increased, as decomposition would have continued. E.g., The flow of plant and animal populations, air, water, and essential elements. (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 12-par1). Salvaging kills this system processes by means of disruption and depletion causing dysfunction.

Salvaging this area would remove symplastless trees that were designed to be structural components of great importance for forest dynamics and forest biodiversity. Salvaging is removing the processes of decomposition of trees, which were designed to provide an important link in cycling of nutrients and essential elements in ecosystems (Kruys and Jonsson, 1999).

Salvaging this area would remove the needs of many species of plants, fungi, and animals. Many are dependent on symplastless trees for nutrients, essential elements habitat or substrate and nesting (Kruys and Jonsson,

1999).

Salvaging this area would remove or stop the formation of "new soil".

Salvaging this area would increases the loss of nutrients and essential elements from the site. Such spots would have excellent for the establishment and growth of vegetation, including tree seedlings. Vegetation would have been established on and help stabilize this "new soil", and as invertebrates and small vertebrates would have begun to burrow into the new soil, they would not only have nutritionally enriched it with their feces and urine but also constantly mix it by their burrowing activities (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 4-par1&2).

Salvaging this area would remove initial, optimal and final stages of fallen trees. Plant - nutrient / essential elements - and the succession of plants on fallen trees is mediated by changes in essential element availability and physical properties over time. Three broad phases can be defined: initial, optimal, final. Early invaders prepare the tree for later colonization by altering its physical and chemical properties during the initial phase. The altered tree provides the best substrate for a wide array of organisms during the optimal phase. Ultimately, the depletion of essential elements and physical deterioration of the wood during the optimal phase diminish its value for many organisms, so fewer species inhabit the final phase (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 25-par 5).

Salvaging this area would have an negative effect on essential elements besides Nitrogen, Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium, and Phosphorus and other essential elements which play key roles in soil, plant and tree health as well as the other associated living organisms (Page-Dumroese, Harvey, Jurgensen and Graham, 1991).

Salvaging this area would remove what would be large fallen trees in various stages of decay which would have contributed to the much needed diversity to terrestrial and aquatic habitats (Maser and Trappe, 1984, abstract-par2).

material, that when most, biological activity in soil, is limited by low moisture availability in summer, would have provided a fallen tree-soil interface and would have offered a relatively cool, moist habitat for animals and a substrate for microbial and root activity (Maser and Trappe,

1984, Abstract-par2). Similar to taking peoples fans and air conditioners during summer.

Salvaging this area would deprive forest of large, fallen trees. The impact of this loss on habitat diversity and on long-term forest productivity must be determined because management need sound, information on which to base resource management decisions (Maser and Trappe, 1984, Abstract-par1).

Salvaging this area would remove the wood and the moisture-holding capacity of the wood, which in turn effects succession of plants and animals (Maser and Trappe, 1984,pg4-par3).

Salvaging this area would remove the formation of class IV stage of a fallen tree, which would have presented the most diversified habitat and hence supported the greatest array of inhabitants. The decayed heartwood, of heartwood forming trees, would have been relatively stable - so plants that would have become established upon it would have had time to grow substantial root systems (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 17-par 3).

Salvaging this area would remove the ecological stage of trees where essential element cycling processes takes place in a forest through such mechanisms as duff fall (freshly fallen or slightly decomposed plant material from the canopy), throughfall (rain or dew that picks up elements as it falls through the canopy), nitrogen fixation, and essential element uptake by plants associated with the fallen trees (Maser and Trappe,

1984,pag 19-par2).

Salvaging this area would remove a gradually changing myriad of internal and external habitats. Plant and animal communities within a fallen tree are very different from those outside, but both progress through a series of orderly changes (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 36-par7).

Salvaging this area would remove the structure, which would have eventually had a community surrounding it that would have been complex (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 38-par 1).

Salvaging this area would remove a connector between the successional stages of a community. The connector would have provided continuity of habitat from the previous forest through subsequent successional stages (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 38-par 1).

Therefore, salvaging this area would remove physical links - an essential element savings account - through time and across successional stages (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 38-par 1).

Salvaging this area would remove a persistent long-term, stable structure on which some animal (both invertebrate and vertebrate) populations appear to depend on for survival (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 38-par 1).

Salvaging this area would remove Certainly our knowledge of biological processes and their interactions within forest is incomplete, and we know too little about the cumulative effect of a wide range of stresses on the ecosystem (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg1-par2).

Salvaging this area would remove materials that would play key roles in the conservation of essential elements. Salvaged areas are susceptible to erosion and essential element loss (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin,

1988, pg5-par4).

Salvaging this area would reduce if not eliminates multi-layered canopies, removes and stops accumulation of larger accumulations of coarse woody debris (any symplastless standing or fallen tree stem at least 4 inches in diameter at breast height (d.b.h.) on snags and at the large end on fallen trees) (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg5-par3).

Salvaging this area would reduce and remove connections for survival of specialized plants and animals, which do survive in unlogged areas (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988,pg5-par3).

Salvaging this area would remove material that would have greatly influences subsequent diversity of both external and internal plant and animal habitats (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg41-par3).

Salvaging this area would remove materials that would have provided a changing spectrum of habitats over many decades' even centuries (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg41-par3).

Salvaging this area would remove material that would have provided diversity within a given successional stage and forms a physical-chemical link through the many successional stages of a forest (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg41-par3).

Salvaging this area would remove material that would have resided on the forest floor for long periods and would have added to spatial, chemical, and biotic diversity of forest soils, and to the processes that maintain long-term forest productivity (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe, and Franklin, 1988, pg44-par3).

Salvaging this area would reduce diversity in forest communities by depletion. Fallen trees do create and maintain diversity in forest communities (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe, and Franklin, 1988, pg44-par3).

Salvaging this area would reduce decaying wood that would have positively enhanced environment for mycorrhizae. In other words, salvaging reduces good conditions for mycorrhizae (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe, and Franklin, 1988, pg120-par4).

Salvaging this area would remove future sites that would have served for reproduction of tree species (Franklin, Cromack, Kermit, et al. others,

1981).

Salvaging this area would remove a clearly important function of a system containing trees (Franklin, Cromack, Kermit, et al. others, 1981).

Note: The phenomenon of nurse logs is widespread in the forest types of the Pacific North- west. Minore (1972) found that seedlings of both Sitka spruce and western hemlocks were more numerous and taller on so called rotten logs than on the adjacent forest floor at Cascade Head Experimental Forest (Franklin, Cromack, Kermit, et al. others, 1981).

Salvaging this area would remove CWD that would have functioned as seedbeds or nurse logs for some trees species and many species of bryophytes, fungi, and lichens, and some flowering plants (Table 7.6) (Samuelsson et al. 1994; D.F. Fraser, pers. comm., 1995; E.C. Lea, pers. comm., 1995) (Voller and Harrison, 1998).

Note: In the Crowsnest Forest, 40-70% of natural seedlings were rooted in decayed wood in old growth and 24% were rooted in decayed wood in cutblocks (S. Berch, pers. comm., 1995). CWD may be important to the establishment of vascular plants around wet sites such as ponds and bogs (Voller and Harrison, 1998).

NOTE: Page 203 has a list of some vascular plants closely associated with CWD in BC (Voller and Harrison, 1998).

Conclusion: The capacity and ability, of CWD, to enhance the health of threatened and endangered species too often goes unobserved such as in the Painter Run Windthrow Salvage Project.

End of 5 of 16

Reply to
symplastless
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Who did you steal this one from, yard man?

Reply to
D. Staples

decisions of treatments with respect to forest health. All you do is remove all wood (substrate for the base of the food web and future water reservoirs). When you salvage an area what do you call it? It surely is no longer correctly termed a forest, i.e., how do you define a forest?

You claim to be a forester when you are a tree farmer that does not understand the ecological stages of trees with respect to forest health. If I am wrong I will be happy. Maybe you could provide some data on salvaging. You only address one ecological stage and destroy the others. I mean that is what you do. Thanks for being honest and explaining what you mean when you say salvage and restoration. I mean a tourniquet will stop a nose bleed.

If we could just get you to define what a consulting forester is. I guess you don't want to try to define a forest. really strange behavior.

Reply to
symplastless

And you claim to be a tree expert, yet you did not respond to the article you were shown about wound paint on live oaks, why is that, yard man?

You refuse to give you educational background, yet want me to define terms that are common, why is that, yard man, can you not read?

How do I remove "all wood", yard man, in a salvage operation? Never saw a salvage site, have you? You would have a tract with no future so you could leave dead wood laying about, a tinder box, that when burned, will sterilize the earth. Tell us, yard man, what the temperature of a woods fire reaches, tell us what it does to the humus and first two layers of soil. Your a self created "tree expert", you should know this. Tell us what life remains after a fire.

It is not a forest after it is destroyed, yard man, and you would wait a century to return it to a natural state, and we foresters can do it in a third of that time. Why do you want to delay the recovery of the land, yard man, why would you deny the right of a land owner to reclaim HIS property?

Which brings up another question, yard man, how much land do you own and manage? Surely you have land other than the yard around your apartment, you being the expert and all.

:Your ignorance of the land, biology, ecology, the earth itself, is phenomenal.

Reply to
D. Staples

enterprise.

Hurricanes, tornadoes, and fires have been laying waste to sections of forests before any of our great-grandparents were born. Severe erosion is the exception, not the rule, in these cases. Granted, its not pleasing to the eye. In my opinion, that, the eye appeal, is what is actually driving most people to have the knee jerk "fix" it opinion. The habitat isn't going to be fixed in short notice by planting some baby trees.

Reply to
Dioclese

I would bet the house ALL the oil we drill goes to Europe where the prices have been 2 dollars US for a litre for decades and decades.

Reply to
Jangchub

So, you would do nothing?

Reply to
Don Staples

OK, so you're not recommending strip cutting. That was the question:-)

Reply to
Billy

Speaking only for myself, I would check with experts in the field of forestry for some options. Someone like the Forest Stewardship Council (you've heard of them, right?). Ayn Rand aside, we live in a society where everyone's actions affect other people (society at large). It only makes sense to maximize societal profits (habitat, clean air & water, recreation, a rewarded steward of the land) and minimize societal costs (the opposite of the previous parenthesizes).

Reply to
Billy

The Council would refer you to a forester, how about that, besides, the question was not addressed to you. As always the liberals want to take on all comers with little to go with.

Reply to
Don Staples

A certified (by them) forester

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Look 'em up. I'm sure you can learn a lot. Unlike some pretend foresters who live on the dark underbelly of forestry, they aren't into strip cut and sell, as you advertise on your web site. And that's a flaming liberal to you, j*rk-off. I'm sorry, I didn't realize this was a private conversation on the public's bandwidth. Besides, I saw it was just you. Anybody else would have to be an improvement. You Bushites just don't like second opinions do you?

All ad hominems are gratuitous ;o)

Reply to
Billy

I am certified, dumb ass. I write certified plans, you, on the other hand, are certifiable.

Unlike some pretend foresters who live on the

Strip cut, you have used that before, cannot seem to find that in any forestry book, did you make that up? How clever of you. Do you mean clear cut? Did not read my web site, huh, listened to your boy friend John, huh?

Hows the chemistry going, did you ever find that underground source of phospherous?

And that's a flaming liberal to you,

We like opinions based in education, not from some doper from the land of fruit and nuts.

Enjoy, dumb ass.

Bi-polar rant on politicians, how quaint.

Reply to
D. Staples

If you weren't so pathetic you would be laughable. Your only function in this newsgroup is to play John's nagging wife. What shall we call you, Blanche, Blanche Bickerson?

"Those concerned about the long-term future of their own industry impelled some timber industry representatives and foresters in the early

1990s to launch discussions with environmental and social organizations and associations of indigenous peoples. In 1993 those discussions resulted in the formation of an international non-profit organization called the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), which is headquartered in Germany and funded by several businesses, governments, foundations, and environmental orga¬nizations. The council is run by an elected board, and ultimately by the FSC's membership, which includes representatives of the timber industry and of environmental and social interests. The FSC's original tasks were three-fold: to draw up a list of criteria of sound forest management; then, to set up a mechanism for certifying whether any particular forest satisfied those criteria; and, finally, to set up another mechanism for tracing products from such a certified forest through the complex supplier chain all the way to the consumers, so that a consumer could know whether the paper, chair, or board that he or she was buying in a store, and that carried the FSC logo, actually came from a soundly managed forest."

Are you this kind of a forester Blanche? Or are you the kind that puts the money in your pocket and runs? After all, what is wrong with habitat, clean air and water, soil conservation, and recreation? What twisted thoughts do you have to share with us, Blanche?

Reply to
Billy

My thoughts are that you, like the yard man, know absolutely nothing about forestry, the forest industry, private forestry, or what a forester is and does. The US state forestry agencies have had certification for private lands for decades, which, since you seem to know so little, include game management, endangered species management, stream management, and any other area that foresters, as biologists, are trained to manage.

I think that you shall be the yard mans bitch. Fuck off, doper.

Reply to
D. Staples

Aside from the obvious, what are the biggest differences between a rangeland ecologist, and a forester? It would seem they both go together.

V
Reply to
Jangchub

Jeez Blanche, is it that time of the month again?

The question I asked was,"Does that mean strip cutting the forest, removal of all habitat and leaving the ground subject to erosion?"

Get help.

Reply to
Billy

Rangeland ecologist gets heavily in to grasses, forbs and herbs, along with soils and the critter management that goes with it. We are tree folk, with, usually, some knowledge of the understory and the critters that go with it. Rangeland management is more heavily tilted towards animal usage.

Reply to
D. Staples

cutting the forest, removal of all habitat and leaving the ground subject to erosion is usually what some city ass hole does when he moves to a rural area and creates his "farm". Like I said, you have no concept of forestry, foresters, or, apparently, ecolcogy.

You have still failed to define "strip cutting" (shit, just sounded like the yard man) as defined in your addled mind.

Like I said, f*ck off, doper.

Reply to
D. Staples

Yes, it is geared toward animal, flora and fauna. We're losing a lot of it every second of every day.

Reply to
Jangchub

You boys have become quite the item. You even sound alike. Wonder if you're starting to look alike.

Sounds so like you. Were you ever literate?

I know you can't help it D> Way I look at, its a matter of convenience for the landowner not to wait for

Does that mean strip cutting the forest, removal of all habitat and leaving the ground subject to erosion? Loss of habitat would reduce hunting and erosion could affect water quality for others.

Reply to
Billy

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