Salvaging - A Closer Look

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So called "SALVAGE and RESTORATION (of a forest) by my good friend critic from - Texas Don Staples who keeps taking me to task is addressed here.
As the story goes with respect to the plight of the Koala, humans are breaking too many connections too fast. As a result many living things are leaving this earth. If this trend continues, only microscopic living things will remain, and the circle of life will go back to beginning. Dr. Alex L. Shigo. The
The plight of this partially blind koala [see picture here: #431 http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/SOUND/whatitis/fire.html ] is due to ignorance of tree basics. Koalas eat the leaves of only about six species of Eucalyptus. Man loved the koala's so much, he built his homes close to the Eucalyptus Groves because he wanted to be close to them. But, the Eucalyptus Groves go up very fast and burn very hot. So, out of the ignorance of tree biology, man dug fire trenches. In doing so, the trees were injured below ground (woody and non-woody roots - for starters). When trees are threatened or injured - they do something - they respond. Because of the fire ditches to reduce the threat of fire and over development, most of the leaves on the declining trees in the area tanned. Tanning is a chemical process of combining phenol-based substances with proteins, and the disruption of hydrogen bonds leaves the protein indigestible. In one sense the hydrogen bonds, are held open by toothpicks. The enzymes of the koala would enter to digest the leaves. Tanning is like, removing the toothpicks. The animals ate and ate, but received little nutrition. Lots of moisture, wet spot developed. A spirochete similar to syphilis entered and was passed along by mating. Many koalas died. The good news is that development in the area was not only stopped, but many developed areas will be returned to their original state.
With that said, I think the treatment to once fertile forest, yes even in Texas, such as Don Staples refers to as "SALVAGE AND RESTORATION" per his website, is deforestation. You cannot plant a forest. Yes, I claim he is a crook, to sell people removing everything remaining is restoration by means of salvaging and leads to some sort of improvement of health of trees as well as associates. http://www.livingston.net/dstaples/Services/salvage.htm
I wondered what function wood would play in PROTECTING A FOREST containing any species of trees. So I read some publications that were peer-reviewed in refereed journals. The US FOREST SERVICE has a awesome library system. The researchers are some of the finest in the world. So I decided to document these findings. I prophesize that negative results will happen if Don's salvaging plans are carried out. http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/SOUND/whatitis/index.html I tried to give page, paragraph and so forth where quotes can be found.
Please think. There is no reason why you cannot think. BTW, all parts of a tree are born alive and trees only absorb water when the roots are growing. This is the beginning of a response to a year of negative criticism from Don Staples and company. There has been a long time battle between Modern Arboriculture and Old Arboriculture in Texas.
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Do to the overwhelming amount a negative criticism by a few individuals on
this list, I am "only" willing to get into debate by way of email. I have a
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/home.ccil.org/~treedan
Alright yard man, tell us, what would you do with a tract where bark beetles had destroyed the stand? Other than dissect the trees for what ever use you would have for cutting up thousands of trees killed by the beetles? Just let it stand to rot at its own pace. completely ignoring the right of a land owner to restore his land to production, other than brush?
You are an ignorant, uneducated fool. You pimp Shigo's work and use others work as your own, seems you ignore the fact that some of us are educated in forest management, and not in ridiculous claims on "dissection", Shigo meters, and the rest of which you have not the slightest clue.
Give up your attorney's name, you need to be addressed in court. It is ignorant fools such as yourself that combine lack of education with false environmental doctrine that has been disproved for decades and has led to the decline of private lands..
You need to spend more time across the street in the county hospital.
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Tree Farming and Related Problems http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/SOUND /
Sincerely, John A. Keslick, Jr. Consulting Tree Biologist www.treedictionary.com Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology. Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding.
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Lets use a tornado as an disturbance and not bark beetles. 1 of 16 Note: the Silviculture mentioned with restoration - I will use the definition for salvaging from a website from a recognized consulting forester in Texas, which I would assume is a forestry industry standard. "Salvage and restoration. There comes a time when nature just does not cooperate with the best of management efforts. At that time you may have to salvage whats left, and start anew. Salvage is a very different sales effort for forest products. Usually, the sales material is damaged, dead, or dying. Finding a market for this material can be tricky, and incomes low. But, best to move the material, get it out of the way for future work. Take what income you can from the salvage, and set it aside for planting the site."
I except the definition but I disagree that you can plant a forest and the fact that you may have to remove what is left which in this case would be the old growth conditions (Tionesta)
What tornados do not do, verses doing the following after a tornado. In other words what would removing wood from a tornado swath achieve - I.e., not limited too but including -
The fallen wood will become symplastless, if not already and in contrast, a symplastless tree or log includes a considerable number of living cells, as much 35% of the biomass may be live fungal cells (Franklin, Shugart and Harmon, 1987, pg [Removing this unique feature.]
It's is documented that a large symplastless tree is not a wasted resource; indeed, it continues to function as an important part of a terrestrial or water system, either while remaining on the site at which it once grew, or by becoming a structural part of an aquatic or marine habitat. Our aim is to help anyone interested in perpetual forest productivity to understand the importance of large, symplastless woody debris. (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg 1par5).
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Fallen trees harbor a myriad of organisms, from bacteria and actinomycetes to higher fungi. Of these, only some of the fungi might be noticed by the causal observer as mushrooms or bracket fungi. These structures, however, are merely the fruiting bodies produced by mold colonies within the log. Many fungi fruit within the fallen tree, so they are seen only when the tree is torn apart. Even when a fallen tree is torn apart, only a fraction of the fungi present are noticed because the fruiting bodies of most appear only for a small portion of the year. The smaller organisms, not visible to the unaided eye, are still important components of the system (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg16-par 5). [This unique feature will be removed]
The flow of plant and animal populations, air, water, and essential elements between a fallen tree and its surroundings increases as decomposition continues (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 12-par1). [This unique feature will be removed]
Fallen trees offer multitudes of both external and internal habitats that change and yet persist through the decades. One needs an understanding of the synergistic affects of constant small changes within a persistent large structure to appreciate the dynamics of a fallen tree and its function in an ecosystem (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 17-par 1). [This unique feature will be removed]
The so called symplastless, still standing trees, yet damaged, still continues to serve several natural functions important to many groups of organisms of the once fertile forest or tree system. ). [This unique feature will be removed]
Eventually the tree falls: the wood is in contact with the soil, again providing another unique ecological situation. Some species such as American chestnut would have served ecological system survival duties for 50 years or more if they were not removed (SHIGO, 1969).
As fallen trees progress from decay class I to class II, the scavengers are replaced by competitors with the enzyme systems needed to decompose the more complex compounds in wood. The fungi involved in this activity are often mutually antagonistic, so that a given part of the tree may be occupied by only one fungus that excludes others by physical or chemical means (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg27-par4). (We call this altered area a niche - See pg70 Modern Arboriculture)(See niche in our www.treedictionary.com - Dictionary) [This unique feature will be removed]
Note: Bacteria are very small. They do big things (Shigo, 1999, #216 pg34)
Free-living bacteria in woody residues and soil wood fix 30-60% of the nitrogen in the forest soil. In addition, 20% of soil nitrogen is stored in these components (Harvey et al. 1987). Harmon et al. (1986) reported that CWD accounted for as much as 45% of aboveground stores of organic matter. Symplastless wood in terrestrial ecosystems is a primary location for fungal colonization and often acts as refugia for mycorrhizal fungi during ecosystem disturbance (Triska and Cromack 1979; Harmon et al. 1986; Caza 1993) (Voller and Harrison, 1998).
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Franklin, et. al. (1987) pg 551 states - With the large array of organisms present in the decaying log, it may be more "alive" than a living bole. In addition to being the habitat of decomposer organisms, symplastless trees provide critical habitat for sheltering and feeding a variety of animal species. [This unique feature will be removed]
Symplastless and symplast containing trees are linked together in the living machinery of a forest (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg25par1). [This unique feature will be removed]
References: http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/SOUND/whatitis/references.html
end of 1 of 16
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Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
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You EXCEPT the definition? You dumb ass, what do you do with 500 dead trees falling on an acre of land? What use does a landowner have for a tinder box of dead wood?

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LOL you really don't understand trees or their associates with respect to their requirements. You think wood is dead, I think you need to go to school and study the ecological stages of trees and their associates before you offer people advice on managing the ecological stages of trees. What do you do for a living? You surely don't depend on your knowledge of trees to support yourself.
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Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
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Answer the questions, dumb ass.
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Way I look at, its a matter of convenience for the landowner not to wait for natural conditions for natural recovery in regards to commercial enterprise.
There's no reason for unused land not to follow natural conditions for recovery.
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Dave

New drilling sites for oil offshore and other
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"Dioclese" <NONE> wrote:

Does that mean strip cutting the forest, removal of all habitat and leaving the ground subject to erosion? Loss of habitat would reduce hunting and erosion could affect water quality for others.
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Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
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Read again my previous reply, strip cutting a forest is usually a commercial enterprise.
Hurricanes, tornadoes, and fires have been laying waste to sections of forests before any of our great-grandparents were born. Severe erosion is the exception, not the rule, in these cases. Granted, its not pleasing to the eye. In my opinion, that, the eye appeal, is what is actually driving most people to have the knee jerk "fix" it opinion. The habitat isn't going to be fixed in short notice by planting some baby trees.
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Dave

New drilling sites for oil offshore and other
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On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 07:36:17 -0500, "Dioclese" <NONE> wrote:

I would bet the house ALL the oil we drill goes to Europe where the prices have been 2 dollars US for a litre for decades and decades.
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"Dioclese" <NONE> wrote in message

So, you would do nothing?
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Speaking only for myself, I would check with experts in the field of forestry for some options. Someone like the Forest Stewardship Council (you've heard of them, right?). Ayn Rand aside, we live in a society where everyone's actions affect other people (society at large). It only makes sense to maximize societal profits (habitat, clean air & water, recreation, a rewarded steward of the land) and minimize societal costs (the opposite of the previous parenthesizes).
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Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
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The Council would refer you to a forester, how about that, besides, the question was not addressed to you. As always the liberals want to take on all comers with little to go with.
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A certified (by them) forester [http://www.fscus.org /]. Look 'em up. I'm sure you can learn a lot. Unlike some pretend foresters who live on the dark underbelly of forestry, they aren't into strip cut and sell, as you advertise on your web site. And that's a flaming liberal to you, jerk-off. I'm sorry, I didn't realize this was a private conversation on the public's bandwidth. Besides, I saw it was just you. Anybody else would have to be an improvement. You Bushites just don't like second opinions do you?
All ad hominems are gratuitous ;o)
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Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
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wrote:

I am certified, dumb ass. I write certified plans, you, on the other hand, are certifiable.
Unlike some pretend foresters who live on the

Strip cut, you have used that before, cannot seem to find that in any forestry book, did you make that up? How clever of you. Do you mean clear cut? Did not read my web site, huh, listened to your boy friend John, huh?
Hows the chemistry going, did you ever find that underground source of phospherous?
And that's a flaming liberal to you,

We like opinions based in education, not from some doper from the land of fruit and nuts.

Enjoy, dumb ass.

Bi-polar rant on politicians, how quaint.
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If you weren't so pathetic you would be laughable. Your only function in this newsgroup is to play John's nagging wife. What shall we call you, Blanche, Blanche Bickerson?
"Those concerned about the long-term future of their own industry impelled some timber industry representatives and foresters in the early 1990s to launch discussions with environmental and social organizations and associations of indigenous peoples. In 1993 those discussions resulted in the formation of an international non-profit organization called the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), which is headquartered in Germany and funded by several businesses, governments, foundations, and environmental organizations. The council is run by an elected board, and ultimately by the FSC's membership, which includes representatives of the timber industry and of environmental and social interests. The FSC's original tasks were three-fold: to draw up a list of criteria of sound forest management; then, to set up a mechanism for certifying whether any particular forest satisfied those criteria; and, finally, to set up another mechanism for tracing products from such a certified forest through the complex supplier chain all the way to the consumers, so that a consumer could know whether the paper, chair, or board that he or she was buying in a store, and that carried the FSC logo, actually came from a soundly managed forest."
Are you this kind of a forester Blanche? Or are you the kind that puts the money in your pocket and runs? After all, what is wrong with habitat, clean air and water, soil conservation, and recreation? What twisted thoughts do you have to share with us, Blanche?
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Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
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wrote:

My thoughts are that you, like the yard man, know absolutely nothing about forestry, the forest industry, private forestry, or what a forester is and does. The US state forestry agencies have had certification for private lands for decades, which, since you seem to know so little, include game management, endangered species management, stream management, and any other area that foresters, as biologists, are trained to manage.
I think that you shall be the yard mans bitch. Fuck off, doper.
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wrote:

Aside from the obvious, what are the biggest differences between a rangeland ecologist, and a forester? It would seem they both go together.
V
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Rangeland ecologist gets heavily in to grasses, forbs and herbs, along with soils and the critter management that goes with it. We are tree folk, with, usually, some knowledge of the understory and the critters that go with it. Rangeland management is more heavily tilted towards animal usage.
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