Salt water damage to azaleas

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You mean you're NOT a Scot???
-paggers
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Janet Baraclough wrote:

It's just too bad that you're so ignorant that you don't even understand what it's really saying. You have totally misinterpreted what it says. It's actually quite amusing that you're using it to prove you're right, when if someone actually reads the whole thing, and understands what it says, they'll see that it doesn't prove your mistaken beliefs at all.
It's so sad that you dug so hard, and ignored so much just to find something that you thought backed-up your odd-ball theory. It's even sadder that what you found really doesn't back-up your odd-ball theory because you really don't understand what you're reading.
And you have the nerve to suggest that *other* people have poor reading comprehension skills?
Sad.
Go out and pour some more salt water on your azaleas. That may be the only way you'll understand how wrong you really are. Although based on history, you'll ignore all the dead ones, and claim that the one that survived is proof that salt water doesn't harm them.
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Warren H.

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Get this, Janet. That was a quick web search I grabbed for a sample. I actually attended a lecture by Cary Wolinsky (a personal friend of my mother's) who did an extensive article for National Geographic about the salt problems in Australia. A little bit more indepth than a BBC reporter's article. You are the one who needs to 'get that'.
The more you go on the less credible you get.
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Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
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Oh, right; "a personal friend of Ann's mother", the ultimate scientific accolade. Clearly the genes inherited from your mother did not enhance your comprehension skills, so it appears Colin Wolinsky was not quite as intimate with her as you imply.

What are you asking us to believe, Ann..that because the lecturer was a personal friend of your mother, you somehow know more about Australian salination than Australian Govt agricultural research? Even if you hung upon his every word just because he was a friend of your mother, you have still failed to grasp the simplest basic point. Ancient oceans are ONE of the sources of the underground salt in Australia. Just ONE. Not the only one.
Why don't you address the scientifically researched facts given in the WA Ag Dept website, and explain to us which ones you think they got wrong? Please provide cites for the scientific, peer reviewed research in Australia, which has brought you to that conclusion.
Janet
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You know, I just realized how bad you've actually become. Now we should discuss ignorant Brits? Descending to insults is the last bastion of a true loser.
The underground salt deposits are from ancient seas, Janet. The water table has risen and brought the salts to the surface. But since that doesn't fit your little theory that salt falls in rainwater you're ignoring it.
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Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
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Janet's usually not this nutty. I suspect something has gone wrong in life & she's venting in a trolly manner so as not to have to deal with life, or is so sensitized from bad stuff in life that at this point she cannot abide being so damned wrong about ANYthing no matter how wrong she gets. Just guessing, but emotional breakdowns CAN be like mini-psychotic breaks. They generally pass.
-paghat the ratgirl

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You still haven't read the Australian Govt Dept of Agriculture website, have you? That is ONE source (as I have repeatedly quoted). The MAIN source of that underground salt, according to that website, is salt from rain.
The water

No, I have not disputed how salination works, Ann; the exact opposite. The fact you think I have, shows that you haven't read either my post or the site it quoted. Just read the WA Agricultural Dept website, then say which of THEIR figures and statements you disbelieve.
Janet
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Sorry, Janet, I'm just a stupid American who can't/won't follow your twisted rantings - and come to your erroneous conclusions. But do continue to insult and ridicule, it makes you ever so much more believable.
I think Paghat's right, you've lost it completely. I believe people like Stephen and Cary (did you google his name? Do you know who he is? And never mind the insults, just look it up), both of whom have been to the places they describe and who've studied what they've reported extensively, before I'll believe anything you dig up.
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Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
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I believe people

"What I dug up"?
In the dispute with Stephen, "what I dug up", was the official websites of the gardens. By official, I mean the websites constructed and run by the public bodies which own and run them. The websites provide maps, elevations, descriptions and pictures which refute Stephen's descriptions of the coastal gardens' locations, elevations, and proximity to sea. I can't influence those websites in any way, so my credibility, or my opinion, is neither here not there. Stephen's claims simply don't match the irrefutable geography. Photographs prove that.
In the discussion about salty precipitation (which Paghat claimed does not exist), "what I dug up" was Australian Govt research by the Western Australia Dept of Agriculture, proving it does.
These are incontrovertible sources of information, Ann. Not my opinion, not something I invented. If you prefer to believe Stephen, that reflects on you. Where Carl's lecture is concerned, I think it unlikely that you fully understood him or paid full attention, just as you failed to grasp or pay full attention to the content and authenticity of the website I cited.
Janet.
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Incontrovertial - that's debatable. But you'd believe it, because of your 'grasp'. There's quite a lot to the environmental devastation brought to Australia by the Brits. And quite a lot of science that won't see the light of day because of the Australian government. But that's a fight for another thread.

You fail to grasp - that I prefer to believe people who've been there and studied situations. Who is Carl? Oh, you didn't 'grasp' his name, did you? Didn't pay full attention, did you? Get insulting, get it right back, honey.
Give it up, Janet, you've killed the horse and beaten it to a pulp.
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Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
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Do you imagine the West Australia Dept of Agriculture has not been to Australia or studied its situation? I'm very surprised you find a talk by a Boston-based photographic journalist, more scientifically significant than their peer-reviewed research.
Janet
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Janet Baraclough wrote:

I think everyone is willing to say that the West Australia Dept of Agriculture knows their business. What we're saying is you're not understanding what you're reading. You're taking it so out of context that you think it says just the opposite of what they're really saying.
In the very first paragraph it states: "Increased recharge raises the water table, bringing naturally stored salts from depth to the surface."
So their point is that the salt problem that rainfall causes is the rise in the water table, not the salt content of the rain itself. While the source of the salt is believed to be the rain water, the amount of salt in the rain is essentially insignificant unless you have no flushing action, and you wait 20,000 years.
They're not saying that it rains salt water. Their saying that because of geological conditions salt in the soil isn't being flushed by the rain water.
Ann's expert is saying the same thing your expert is saying, but you aren't understanding what your expert is really saying, and you're hearing essentially the opposite of what they actually are saying. You are misunderstanding what you are reading.
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That's new; you directly contradicted them earlier. See below, salt in rainfall.
What we're saying is you're not

I think we're at cross purposes here.
The misunderstanding is yours.
Earlier, I said that rhododendrons and azaleas in Scotland are well-used to frequent heavy salting from rainwater. (AT NO TIME, have I claimed this salinates Scotiish soil. On the contrary, I made it clear, in our climate conditions it does not).
Here's the exhange between me and Stephen:
J> > West Scotland's salt-laden coast is famous for its

S> How can areas with 60 to 90 inches of annual rainfall be salt laden?!?!?!
J> The rain, and wind, come from 3000 miles of Atlantic ocean and are heavily salt-laden.
Paghat replied
from snipped-for-privacy@netscape.net (paghat) contains these words:

I cited the Australian site, as proof that coastal precipitation A) does contain salt and B) does deposit that salt on land. Note, I described, above, heavily salt-laden rain and wind. NOT salt evaporating into clouds; that was another of Paghat's red herrings. . You responded
If what you got out of that page is that salt can be evaporated

Here's what the website states: (speaking of wind blown salt in rain water from the ocean).
"Salt in rainfall can range from about 20 kg/ha/per annum (usually inland with low rainfall) to more than 200 kg/ha/per annum (usually coastal with high rainfall)."
Rain in coastal areas, like mine, can be very heavily salted. Research in Australia (and America, quoted earlier in the thread by Presley), proves that. Both you and Paghat denied that was possible; you were wrong.
Shelterplanting, which is essential here due to very high winds, only breaks the windforce. It can't keep the all-year heavy (and salty) rainfall off plants below or in the lea of the windbreak. ALL plants here, are going to have salty rain dropped on them several times a week (or, for weeks on end in winter). That includes the azaleas and rhododendrons which thrive here. Janet.
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Tell us about how switching from drinking rain water to drinking sea water is going since you have proved they are the same. By the way I bear no responsibility for your demise or funeral costs, try billing that to the Australian Government agency you are quoting.
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Straw man. You're posting rubbish that you made up ..again. Here's another example of your fantasies
""Inverewe Gardens (NT) (on Loch Ewe, a saltwater estuary, but the rhododendrons and azaleas are either grown in walled gardens or on high ground."..Stephen Henning 6 August 2005 www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/poolewe/inverewe/ Shows picture of the ONLY walled garden at Inverewe Gardens, built right on the sea beach (not, a saltwater estuary), and not used for growing azaleas and rhododendrons.
Janet
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presley wrote:

http://landresources.montana.edu/LRES355/PDF/Lectures/LRES355_Topic%20B2_Part1_Solution_Chemistry_Web.pdf
A plant sitting in a low spot with distilled water swirling around its base is a gonner.
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Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
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You're incompetent. That page makes it perfectly clear; quote
*"Where does the salt come from?
*Soil salt can come from three main sources:
* 1. From the breakdown of parent rock: A very slow process. * 2. From geological inundation by the oceans: Only on discrete parts of Australia. * 3. From wind blown salt, usually in rain water from the ocean.
*Salt in rainfall can range from about 20 kg/ha/per annum (usually inland with low rainfall) to more *than 200 kg/ha/per annum (usually coastal with high rainfall). In most of Australia, this is the source *of stored salts. " end quote.
Presley has given another cite telling you the same thing.

I suggest you apply that to yourself, Stephen and Paghat. You jumped on the wrong bandwagon, Warren; your heroes are not the experts they pretend and now you've been hoist on their own petard of lies and deliberate misrepresentations.
Janet.
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Janet Baraclough wrote:

Okay. You win. Azaleas will thrive in salty conditions.
I'm ready to go out and pour salt water on all my azaleas based on your convincing arguments. But just in case you're wrong, I'll wait until you put your money where your mouth is, and agree to pay for replacements if you turn out to be wrong.
Thank goodness you pointed out how everyone else lies so much, otherwise I'd never realize that you're the only generous who really knows how to grow azaleas!
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There's another of your lies, Warren. I haven't said *everyone* else lies. You do, clearly.
I don't, and neither did Soo, Charles, and Presley in this thread.
Janet
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Janet Baraclough wrote:

Ah. That clears it up. You don't know what the definition of a lie is.
A lie is a known false statement deliberately presented as being true. It is not simply something that is factually incorrect. And certainly isn't something that is factually incorrect on a technicality. If I say "tall people bump their heads on doorways", that's not a "lie" even if technically they don't always bump their heads. If I say "a tall person just bumped his head on my doorway", that would be a lie because not only isn't it true, I know it's not true, and I deliberately presented it as being true. However if I believe that a tall person bumped his head, and it turns out he didn't, it would not have been a lie for me to say it because I believed it to be true at the time.
So the problem isn't that you're calling people liars when they aren't telling lies. The problem is you're calling people liars because you don't know what a lie is! That explains a lot! You're not a wicked name caller. You're just ignorant.
BTW... Are you going to put your money where your mouth is, and offer to pay for any damage that happens if it turns out you're not right about azaleas thriving in salt water conditions? Or are you ready to back down from your ridiculous assertion that azaleas thrive in salty conditions? You side-stepped that in your last reply, and I'm all ready to pour some saltwater on my azaleas per your recommendation, but not if you're not willing to stand behind your statements.
Admitting that you might be wrong about azaleas thriving in salt water wouldn't make you a liar. It's quite obvious that you really believe(d) it to be true, which means admitting that you may have been wrong isn't the same as admitting you're a liar -- unless you then claim that you never said something that you did.
Or you can just call me a liar again, and demonstrate your ignorance once more.
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