roundup in the yard and garden

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Bill Rose wrote:

I am not into homeopathy. Just pointing out an alternative view to 'toxicity'. We have highly evolved organs/systems to deal with many naturally occuring toxins. But much of your post is some kinda rant that's difficult to follow so.....
you can have the last word.
Carl
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wrote:

That's nice, but for much of the crap we're intentionally exposed to for profit, nobody knows what the toxic levels really are.
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One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor. Y'all come back, hear? We wasn't shooting at you and your liver.
- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
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wrote:

I would use some general herbicide (probably Scythe, not Roundup) if I needed to clear a piece of land which harbored a multitude of weeds, both grassy and broad-leafed. I may have done so many years ago when I started my mini-farm, not sure and would have to check my records.
If the land section were small enough I would use my trusty flamer a tool that is ignored by too many people IMHO.

There have been misuses and overuse in the past. I am not familiar with the operations of large, commercial farms, just small ones. My experience is that the small farmers are very aware of the dangers of overuse of any pesticide and pay close attention to their activities. The introduction of IPM techniques has dramatically changed small farm operations for the better.
John
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Thanks for the honest answer.
How are small farms doing? Are you doing OK or just hanging on? I thought small farmers were being run-over by large agri-corporations. Have you found a niche market or do the corps just take-over the most lucrative crops and, leave small farmers the marginal ones? Do you think there is a future for small farms?
- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
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wrote:

I am not really a small farmer. I am a guy who runs a mini-farm as a hobby. I like my hobbies to pay for themselves so I have some cash crops for that purpose.
I am now in year two of a three year plan to move to garlic as the cash crop. It is less labor intensive than some other crops (raspberries was my start) and there are few growers here (New Hampshire). So far it is looking pretty good.
I am able to visit small farms throughout the year, folks who are larger than me and depend upon their farms for their livelihood - most are organic. They are doing OK, not great but keeping their heads above water. They find ways to increase revenue and adapt, adapt, adapt - a great bunch of people.
You will not find their produce in the supermarket, farmer's markets and stands on their farms are the principal outlets. Sadly, most people do not experience produce produced locally.
I took some of my peaches to the gym where I work out and gave them away. The reaction was incredible. Most people have never experienced a fresh, ripe peach picked off the tree just a couple of hours ago. They could not believe it and had never visited a farmer's market. Some of them do now.
Being the sole proprieter and only worker on my parttime mini-farm I cannot possibly go organic. But I can use IPM and do. Many of the organic disciples think that I am a heathen because I use chemical products where I deem them necessary. That's life, but I admit to annoyance from time to time.
Good luck.
John
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On Sun, 20 May 2007 16:38:59 -0400, John Bachman
[...]

[...]
Well, I sure hope you can undercut the Chinese <g>
I could not BELIEVE my eyes, the last few times I bought garlic at the supermarket -- imported from CHINA??!!! Is that insane, or what?
Persephone
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On Sun, 20 May 2007 14:29:33 -0700, Persephone wrote:

Yes, it is true. Most supermarket garlic is imported from China impacting the California garlic growers.
No, I will not undercut them. But I will produce a better product.
I think that this is another niche that small time farmers can fill but people have to get in the habit of buying from farmers markets.
John
John
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wrote:

Good, because the garlic's getting pretty ugly lately.
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wrote:

Thanks to a stubborn FDA physician named Frances Kelsey who bucked officialdom and the drug companies; who knows how many tragedies she averted!
http://www.fda.gov/oashi/patrep/nih99.html#kelsey

Not surprising. Monsanto is an international crazed capitalist (as opposed to progressive capitalist) monster of Biblical proportions. Somewhere in my back files of Mother Jones Magazine there's an article about how they forced third world very poor people to buy water from them -- whereas in the past, they could just get it from their wells, springs and rivers. That seems like the ultimate cruelty. If I find the reference, I'll post.
Persephone!

Is that the end where they can't tell if you,uh, YOU know...?
Persephone

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wrote:

Thanks for the citation.

there's an article about how they forced third world very poor people to buy water from them -- whereas in the past, they could just get it from their wells, springs and rivers. That seems like the ultimate

I think that is a reference to Bechtel taking over the Bolivian water companies. They even charged Bolivians who collected rainwater. The movie "Corporation" does a great segment on the affair. The Bolivians revolted and chased the SOBs out of the country.

No I don't know. Could you tastefully elucidate your drift?
Hasta luego,
- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
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wrote:

That may well be; I'm not familar with Bechtel's crimes; will research.
I *was* talking about Monsanto, however; I well remember the article in Mother Jones.
A brief reference to Monsanto and water can be found on this site:
http://www.organicconsumers.org/monlink.cfm
which takes you directly to "Millions against Monsanto". On the right side, go to "If you're talking about", and scroll down to "Water Privatization".
The crimes of Monsanto on the above link are absolutely stupefying! Wonder who their fellow-criminals in Congress might be...

Sometimes the urge is so, uh, urgent that I elucidate until I'm BLUE in the pool...er...in the face...
Persephone
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wrote:

In regard to extreme disregard to human suffering I'm not seeing much difference.

Better than a double expresso.

Then there was the time that the traveler called down to the front desk and said,"I gotta' leak in my sink." The front desk said,"Go ahead."
Persephone, just so's you knows, I'm not going in the pool with YOU;-)
- Bill Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
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???? Bill McBride was the first Doctor to make the connection between thalidomide and birth defects in 1961 and Persephone's post on Kelsey says that thalidomide was taken off the market in 1961.
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In article

G'day Love, shouldn't you be out feeding the chooks instead of coming in like a bomb-thrower while I'm expounding? OK, OK, I'll take off the lamp shade and be serious.
Lord, this takes me back a bit. Fortunately, I don't have to rely on the little grey-cells any more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide .
Good on Bill McBride. I guess that everyone else was dead to the world. The long and the short of it is that it should have never gotten to market in the first place.
"It was sold from 1957 to 1961 in almost 50 countries under at least 40 (different) names . . ." Then once released in 1957, it took these blobheads 3-4 more years to figure out that from " 1956 to 1962, approximately 10,000 children were born with severe malformities, . . .) OK, so there is a bit of an over lap on the dates. If we just average it, we are talking about about 7,000 babies with "extreme deformities", and how many with just your average deformity?
"Before its release inadequate tests were performed to assess the drug's safety, with catastrophic results for the children of women who had taken thalidomide during their pregnancies."
Thanks for keeping me on the straight and narrow. Your a good conch.
Scratch y'er crater,
- Bill Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
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John Bachman wrote:

I bought a 'weed burner' from harbor Freight for $10 .(though I use it for cleaning and lighting my BBQ pit)
Carl
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Roundup has been my friend for many, many years. One has to be very careful with it. Go exactly by the directions. The hardest for me is finding a day with absolutely no breeze. The drift from the spray can float around anywhere, including open windows. I use it on those PITA violets but I don't spray them with it. I put some Roundup in a styrofoam cup and brush a bit on the offending plant with one of those cheapie paint sponge brushes. The brushes are dirt cheap and I pitch the cup and brush afterwards. Good luck.
Michael
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to post this at: rec.gardens:

VIOLET SLAYER!!! UNCLEAN!! UNCLEAN!!!
Oh, Michael, how can you kill those marvelous little things? I'll have to introduce you to Tincture of Violet and eating the flowers in your salads which is so cool that people are in awe when they see them. And then you can press/dry the flowers and make lovely gifts like candles and stationary and soaps. Plus you can sugar the flowers for cake decoration. It's a wonderful plant! And you kill them. Shame. Shammmmmmmmmmmmmme. ;P
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this at: rec.gardens:

There is absolutely *nothing* you can say to change my mind about murdering the increasingly intrusive bastards. The wild mint either. What just boggles me is the same violent, that is vigorously intent on consuming my flower beds, lawn and even the cracks between the sidewalk, sells at nursery stores here for about $4.95 a plant. Why anyone would buy and plant them is beyond me ;)
And you *know* I'm not talented in the craft area so I say, off with their heads ;)
Michael
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to post this at: rec.gardens:

The same twits who spray for every damned "weed" would probably also have the biggest mouths if they discovered their drinking water was measurably and dangerously contaminated. They probably blame everyone but themselves. It's interesting that compared to 30-40 years ago, homes and golf courses are now the primary point sources for the majority of groundwater pollution. These are big words and inconvenient concepts, though, so it's hard for twits to even think about them.
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