roundup in the yard and garden

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Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly. The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.
So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?
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I'm can't prove it, one way or the other but you may want to look at < http://www.chemicalbodyburden.org/ .
- Bill Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
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Ook wrote:

I've used it but now try to choose more 'targeted' methods/chemicals. That is, if I needed a 'weed' killer for weeds in my lawn, I try to buy a weed killer. Roundup (and now you have to careful as there are sevrrla types with additional active ingredients) will affect EVERYTHING with green growing vegetation. using it on weeds in the lawn for instance, it will kill the weeds, it will kill the grass if oversparyed or dripped. If you walk on the location you sprayed, it will kill the grass at the next step or 2 (walk backwards or work to the side starting AWAY from the house). I have successfully planted within days of using it. No, I have not done extensive testing - just anecdotal experience. As to toxicity - well, being outside exposes you to the harmful rays of the sun, pollen, stinging insects and mosquitos too. Nothing is completely safe.
what are your plans for the chemical? - maybe someone has alternate suggestions for you.
Carl
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I've been using roundup on a very limited basis for spot week control away from the garden, and for that it works great. I even used it for large dandylions in the grass by carefully and sparingly applying it to the weed. In the end I would probably have been better off just yanking the weed LOL. It killed a spot about 12 inches around, and took months before anything grew back - pre-mixed roundup is rather strong, when I mix it myself I mix it quite a bit weaker then the instructions call for, and it works well enough.
However....my garden was carved from a nice lush green lawn. I plowed it over, raked out the grass clumps, and planted. Needless to say, the garden was infested with grass and clover. This year I've been plowing it once every couple of weeks, weather permitting, and most of the grass and clover is dead and gone. It consists of 8 beds, with grass all around and grass walkways going through it. Last year, these "walkways" overgrew the garden, and I imagine they provide a nice breeding place for bugs. I'm thinking of killing the grass because it's a pita to maintain, plus I don't want the bug breeding grounds. I've been using pieces of cardboard with rocks to hold them in place on one stretch, and that seems to work, but I'm short on cardboard. I'm considering roundup, but honestly, don't really want to do that. Right now, 3 of the beds are planted, and I've got a killer crop of onions, and some nice potatoes starting.
This is a pic from about a month ago, you can kinda see a few of the beds and the walkways between them. I'm open to suggestions and advice as to what to do with the grass paths, I am in no way an expert in these matters :-P
http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2007/2007AprilGarden1/DSCF8371.jpg
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Ook wrote:

I'm sure others will chime in, but I think many folks use mulch fro pathways - I dunno what type would be best though - and you may need to rake out and replace some every year or 2 but I'd bet what yuo rake out could go in the composter.
Carl
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Pesticide info can be found here:
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman/spring.html
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Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
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Glyphosate kills by disrupting the shikimic acid pathway in plants. Fungi also have the same pathway. This could be a bad thing for beneficial fungi.
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Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
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Nobody can answer your question. No garden chemical can be properly tested for human safety. You and your family are the laboratory rats. Go for it.
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On Fri, 18 May 2007 15:11:50 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"

Nonsense. READ THE LABEL carefully and follow the directions including personal protection equipment and the re-entry period and you will be fine.
Roundup has been used by professionals and amateurs alike for many years and has been proven to be safe when used properly.
That being said, there are other methods that entail fewer hazards. Flaming with a propane weed flamer has few risks if you use common sense and is one alternative. Flamers are available on eBay for around $30 including shipping.
JMHO
John
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Which specific information in my paragraph do you consider to be nonsense?
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JoeSpareBedroom, you are obviously not a man of faith. It says right there on the can that it is safe, if used as directed. Besides, the company (Monsanto ) must surely have done studies to insure that it is safe and, that it doesn't still have those nasty side effect that "agent orange" had. Even the EPA has sighed off on it. I mean Kristy Whitman wouldn't kid you, right? Well OK, she did say the air was safe for emergency workers around the "twin towers" and she has messed up a few other things but no reason to go into that. Anyway, Monsanto is a name of integrity. Everybody knows what they stand for:-) In twenty years, when he or, a family member, comes down with cancer, he won't have that gnawing question of "did I use it as directed"?
Unglaublich.
- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
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JoeSpareBedroom, leave the man be. It must be reassuring to live in a world where you know all the answers.
It reminds me of Donald MacDonald from the Isle of Skye, who went to study at an American university and was living in the dorm with all the other students. After he had been there a month, his mother telephoned him.
"And how do you find the American students, Donald?" she asked.
"Mother," he replied, "they're such terrible, noisy people. The one keeps banging his head on the wall and won't stop and the one on the other side screams and screams all night."
"Oh Donald! How do you manage to put up with those awful noisy American?"
"Mother, I do nothing. I just ignore them. I just stay here quietly, playing my bagpipes."
-------
Word to live by.
- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum
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What a silly response. I pointed out that we know NOTHING about these chemicals. If I had all the answers, I'd be happy to share them.
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Silly? Me? Well, probably:-)
I was referring to John's apparent faith in the text of advertising spewed out by Monsanto to separate lazy "Earth Killers" from their money. Considering it took three years, AFTER the mutagenic properties expressed themselves in babies, to get Thalidomide off the market, is it any wonder that if a product doesn't immediately strike you down stone dead, it is registered as safe. Meanwhile, Monsanto has gotten an injunction from the FDA against stevia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevia ), a plant the you can grow in your own back yard, because using its' non-caloric sweetening properties would cut into Monsanto's "NutraSweet" profits.
Like Donald McDonald, John doesn't seem to see the connection between his actions and the environment around him.
Before anyone starts splashing chemical soup around their yard they should look at http://www.oztoxics.org/cmwg/body%20burden/load.html . The real problem is that MAYBE glyphosate is totally safe (and I'm not conceding that for a second) BUT, does it work synergistically with any of the other chemicals or mix of chemicals and, GMOs that are now found in the environment in our post civilized world?
All I want to do is swim in the non-chlorinated end of the pool.
Your buddy, the choir.
You can have the soap-box back now.
Go get'em JoeSpareBedroom.
- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
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wrote:

He was being sarcastic! Maybe even funny.
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wrote:

No, I pay no attention to Monsanto advertising, or any other for that matter.
However, I do use some common sense. Roundup has been on the market for many years and used by professionals and amateurs alike. There have been no reported problems when the product is used according the manufacturer's label. Hence, my declaration of Joe's assertion as nonsense.
I am also quite familiar with the effects of pesticides on the environment. That familiarity is one of the many requirements for becoming a licensed pesticide applicator, as I am.
If you go back to my original post on this issue I pointed out that there are other methods which are just as effective as roundup (or an other general herbicide) and less problematic.
On my mini-farm I use IPM methods which are using what is most effective and least invasive, whatever that happens to be. Some of the techniques are "organic" and others are not. But I always pay attention to environmental effects, to do otherwise would be a violation of law, and more importantly, a violation of common sense.
I have not used Roundup or any other general herbicide for many years but will do so if it is the the appropriate technique for a particular problem.
John
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John, thank you for your response. I don't want to sound confrontational but out of a purely academic interest, what would be a situation in which you would use Roundup? According to Wikipedia, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup#_note-6 ) "In the US 25 million applications are used every year on lawns and yards and 18-48 million pounds are used annually in US agriculture." You haven't used it in years so, what do you think about putting this much herbicide into the environment every year?
In footnote 8 (see below) there is a reference to Carolyn Cox, Northwest Coalition for Alternatives to Pesticides[4]. Do you know of this lady and her bona fides? http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/Roundup-Glyphosate-Factsheet-Cox.htm In studies of people (mostly farmers) exposed to glyphosate herbicides, exposure is associated with an increased risk of miscarriages, premature birth, and the cancer non-Hodgkin's lymphoma.
Glyphosate has been called "extremely persistent" by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, and half lives of over 100 days have been measured in field tests in Iowa and New York. Glyphosate has been found in streams following agricultural, urban, and forestry applications. -------
As I mentioned before, even if glyphosate is completely safe we are still looking at an incredible amount of an artificial chemical being released into the environment with little idea of its' and its' residues synergistic reactions are on the environment. I know I sound like a "Cassandra" but I would rather be safe than sorry.
I would appreciate any light you may shed on this issue.
Thank you.
- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
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Bill Rose wrote:

We may never know how many people lived healthier, longer lives from exposure to small amount of toxins. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis
Carl
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wrote:

True. We may never know, especially since the results of some studies are dependent on cash, not data.
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Uh-huh. You're into homeopathy, right? Talk about your counter intuitive. So what your saying is that China did us a favor by shipping us melamine treated gluten and the Bush Administration is doing us another favor by releasing the tainted chickens, hogs and, fish for consumption (Started last week. It's a good time to go organic, at least for awhile.). Boy do you have a hard one to sell. This sounds like a nice discussion to have over a bucket of margaritas but the bottom line is that if, there was an evolutionary advantage to ingesting toxins, we would have found it in the last four and a half billion years. Toxins are toxic. Why don't you start with something easy, like selling famine. It has been shown that if lab animals are occasionally starved, they live longer. By the way, can I freshen up you salmonella?
- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
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