Righting What Ivan Wronged

Hello folks. I've been lurking in this NG for a while, but tonight is the first time I've posted. I need your help. Here's my dilemma:
Hurricane Ivan put a serious lean on a large Water Oak of mine. The Oak probably stands about 30 feet tall and has a trunk diameter of about 13 inches/circumference of 46-47 inches. It's leaning at about a 10-degree angle. A smaller Water Oak (about half the size/diameter) stands on my property line about 10-12 feet behind it. Would it be feasible to some how use the smaller Oak to right the larger one? I hate to lose this nice shade tree, but I can't leave it the way it is. It's now an eyesore and if it were to get blown over it would catch a portion of my home's roof.
- So, should I break out the chain saw?
- Or should I, and is it possible to, straighten this tree back up?
Thanks in advance for your help,
Patrick
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On 21 Sep 2004 18:28:16 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Patrick) wrote:

Tryiing to restraighten or hold a leaner tree is hard to do. Its unknown if the root system on one side or the other may have suffered damages, and you always have to worry about another good wind coming along for quite some time to establish the fact that the tree is firmly back in the ground. I have seen various attemps at saving leaners, some work some did not. I also have a heap of trees leaning from Ivan and noticeable loose soils around roots, and just to be on the safe side any of them that if they fell could cause harm or damage is getting removed........The few that are off to the one side that if they fell would not pose a problem I intend to experiment with, but it certainly gonna be a long time until I can truthfully trust them as to being secured in place.
If you right the larger tree using the smaller tree, how are you gonna hold it in place, or do you intend to use the small tree as a sort of anchor? You really need more than one anchor point to secure a tree back up vertically, as odds are it also has loose roots to the sides as well. Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com Opinions expressed are those of my wife, I had no input whatsoever. Remove "nospam" from email addy.
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talk to a tree specialist. oaks are supposed to withstand storms like this. maybe there is a problem with lopsided growth, or encircling roots that prevented proper root growth on one side. in any case, the tree may need to be trimmed. it is worth saving cause it is probably pretty old, right?
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On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:43:21 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@wi.rr.xx.com wrote:

An oak should take good ewinds, however they do have a shallow root system, and with the amount of rain Ivan dumped, and the winds it don;t take long for a tree with a decent canopy to start to loosen up no matter how healthy it is. I lots a tree during hurricane Opal back in 1995 that was over 200 years old. A huge oak. Its first lib was over 42 inches in diameter and was approx 30 feet fromthe ground. Its canopy would have been sufficient for a state record tree if it had more uniformity to it. Those oaks may be strong, but the root system especially in soggy soils suck. I lost 27 of them and on the ones that were upturned, you can see a root mass that is very very large in diameter but not all that deep as compared to pine trees. Anothe rproblem with an oak is once they get past a certain age and diameter its usually pretty common for them to start to rot and become hollow on the insides, which usually does not harm them but its not readily apparaent on the outside. I wold not think an oak of this fellows size would be hollow though, but water oaks are among the worse for being hollow inside. Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com Opinions expressed are those of my wife, I had no input whatsoever. Remove "nospam" from email addy.
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snipped-for-privacy@wi.rr.xx.com wrote in message

Sorry, ol' pal, but oaks do *not* stand up to high winds because they are shallow rooted. Almost all homes damaged by the truly large trees were oaks.
Bob S.
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really.. must be southern oaks cause the ones up here have a very deep tap root and almost never get blown over. they are very slow growing reaching great ages before they get really BIG. Ingrid
snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (Bob S.) wrote:

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On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:57:26 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@wi.rr.xx.com wrote:

snip I would have to think it all depends on the type of oak it is and the soil its in, and also the surounding terrain . There is a lot more to just saying its an oak and it is made to take a big storm, or iots an oak and its got shallow tap roots etc............Water oak in general has very shallow roots, white oak on the other hand and red oak seem to have a deeper root system, but are much slower growing.......Moss or Burr oak or Live oaks are even slower and have a much larger root mass than the others mentioned . But its only pertinent to my area and soils conditiions and climate........
One could also say it was predominately oaks that blew over as that was the most poplar species of trees for the area, buit if it was in the northin a maple tree concentrated area it cold then be maples doing all the damage. All I know is pine trees wiuth long deep tap roots and little canopy as compared to a deciduous tree always seems to fare better for this area in a hurricane or other storm........Oaks do well as long as the ground does not get inundated with water for a period of time and have lots of wind motion. Biggest problem with pines is in a tornado they snap the tops out pretty easy.
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com Opinions expressed are those of my wife, I had no input whatsoever. Remove "nospam" from email addy.
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snipped-for-privacy@wi.rr.xx.com wrote in message

Ours do not have tap roots - just a large mass of shallow roots. The tops get heavy and the mix of wet soil and high wind causes them to topple.
Bob S.
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from snipped-for-privacy@wi.rr.xx.com contains these words:

It's probably aged between 20 and 30. I have climbed oaks 20 + feet tall, within 15 years of planting them as acorns.
Since the tree is within reach of his property, the OP should seek specialist advice and notify his home-insurers. If he does not, then should the tree fall later the insurance company might refuse to pay out on the grounds that he had ample warning/failed to take reasonable care/ failed to notify them of a significant change in risk.
Janet.
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Water Oaks are not a desirable tree in Florida for streets or near houses. (They are fine for large properties well away from any structure). They are VERY fast growing, they get massive very quickly, and they DIE relatively young - (like at age 50) which means an expensive removal down the line. Live oaks stand up to hurricanes better, although they will often drop one of their massive limbs in a storm if the combination of sopping wet spanish moss, leaves, and strong winds gets them all at one time. However, the tree itself will usually be fine. Given the mass of those trees, I was surprised in the 1984 hurricane in Tallahassee to see several live oaks uprooted with telephone wire strung around them like a spool of thread - tornados of course, spawned by the passage of the hurricane. Hard to imagine the strength of a tornado sufficient to lift a 10 ton tree and spin it like a top, but there was the evidence. If you want to stay in the oak family, and are too impatient to wait for a live oak to grow, you might consider something like a Shumard Oak - it even colors up nicely in the fall - but slower growing than a water oak, so it should stand up to storms better. Or perhaps go out of the oak family. Liriodendrons (tulip poplars) are large shade trees which grow fast but are much longer-lived on average than water oaks. You could also grow a bald cypress. Many people are not aware that they can grow just fine on dry ground. They favor swamps partly because they are very susceptible to fire.
(Patrick) wrote:

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On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:21:41 -0700, "gregpresley"

Your right. Mobile Alabama and Gulfport Biloxi is full of live oaks and they have seen many a bad hurricane come through in their lifetime and most of them survive just fine........water oaks go down in a heartbeat, and the spanish moss certainly does not help things either......... Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com Opinions expressed are those of my wife, I had no input whatsoever. Remove "nospam" from email addy.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Patrick) wrote in message

Yes. Righting trees that big is usually a losing proposition. The roots have been damaged, and even if you got it upright again, I doubt you'd be able to prevent rot from setting in below ground. It would then be even more precarious and likely to obliterate part of your house when even a modest wind came along.
J. Del Col
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Patrick) wrote in message
Thanks for the replies, folks. I guess the general concensous is to break out the chain saw to rule out the future possibility of it falling on my house. I kinda figured that. I also noticed tonight the tree has a lot of vertical "stress marks" in the bark on the south side of the trunk. Probably not a good sign either, huh? I just hate to lose this nice shade tree. Oh well, I guess it gives me the opportunity/reason to buy something more interesting to replace it. Any suggestions for a yard in Florida's panhandle? Know of anything that would go nice with my other two Water Oaks, two Dogwoods, one Japanese Maple (grows to 20 feet), a couple Japanese Snowballs, and a few Crapes Myrtles...?
Patrick

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