Re: Why does everyone p**s all over Purple Loosestrife?

[Cereoid-UR12-]

You sure make a whole lot of sense, Alan..............NOT!!!

Maybe you should calm down and start over from the beginning and explain exactly what the heck you are ranting about?

Cattails are weedy too. So, what's your point?

As the owner of eight separate ponds, I regard this as a beautiful > plant which attracts countless myriads of insects and provides nectar > for most of them. > > May be God intended it was "invasive" and maybe you lot know better, > in your organised fashion? > > The most invasive things I have discovered in my lifetime are people, > not plants. I also believe that people do far more damage than > plants, even IF plants are invasive. > > Kind regards, > Alan M. Watkins

[GrampysGurl]

fact that is killing native vegetation that has more of a beneficial impact to the wildlife of the United States.... In fact as a whole loosetrife has a very small amount of wildlife that is attracted to it. It may be pretty but it isn't something anyone should want in their yard as it is extremely aggressive with no native enemies to keep it in check. It's bad stuff.

Colleen Zone 5 Connecticut

[dr-solo]

it takes over habitat now occupied by cat tails, which are native and home to entire ecoweb of other species. loosestrife moves in and out competes the cat tails. Ingrid

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List

the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.

[David J Bockman]

From

"Invasive alien plants typically exhibit the following characteristics:

Rapid growth and maturity Prolific seed production Highly successful seed dispersal, germination and colonization Rampant vegetative spread Ability to out-compete native species High cost to remove or control ...

An invasive plant infestation is like a slow motion explosion, which, if left unchecked, may severely alter a site's natural, economic, aesthetic, and other cultural values. Purple loosestrife (Lythrum salicaria) illustrates this effect of invasive plants. An exotic introduction to North America for ornamental uses, purple loosestrife has invaded thousands of acres of wetlands in the Northeast. The plant grows in high density and creates substrate buildup around its roots that creates a drier site and allows the plant to invade open water (Bender 2000). The resultant changes in substrate and hydrology negatively impact native wetlands and the plants and animals that inhabit these communities."

Very few things will piss off a naturalist faster than an introduced species that alters wetlands.

Dave

[GrampysGurl]

soooo true!!! Colleen Zone 5 Connecticut

[Chris Owens]

I live in upstate NY within a mile of a beautiful marsh. Where my local and state governments are engaged in an active [and, fortunately, successful] effort to remove the purple loostrife. Which crowds out the native plants; which reduces the biodiversity, food, and habitat for the native animal / insect species; which sort of screws all to hell the concept of wetlands, y'know? In their native habitat, most invasive plants are subject to natural ecological controls . . . there's something that eats it or competes with it. The problem comes when you introduce such a species to a non-native habitat . . . then it is likely to crowd out something[s] else which are crucial to the local food chain; without, mind you, providing adequate replacement.

Chris Owens

Alan Watk>

[Alan Watkins]

I suppose it's just a different brand of ecology but beekeepers love it because in time of drought or very dry weather it is one of the few plants available to the hive. A question of balance, I guess, and one where beekeepers probably don't figure much.

I repeat: people are more destructive and invasive than any plant.

Kind regards, Alan M. Watkins

[Some One]

Don't forget that bees were introduced in North America from Europe! They aren't native either!

[Stephen M. Henning]

Don't forget that most of us were introduced in North America from Europe! We aren't native either. My wife is 3/16's native.

[David J Bockman]

Don't forget the natives aren't native either!

"As elusive as the Cheshire Cat, the first people to arrive in the Americas have seemed to appear and vanish with each new twist in the archaeological record. The latest disappearing act takes place in the journal Science, where new evidence casts another shadow over a once-cherished idea: that Asian big-game hunters crossed the Bering land bridge between Siberia and Alaska to give rise to the Clovis people, considered the first Americans. New dating results show that a crucial Siberian site, thought to be a way station on the Bering road, was not occupied until after the Clovis had begun killing mammoths in North America."

[JanuszB]

I think you are right. Purple Loosestrife exist on this continent for

200 years and only recently naziecologist ( America for American plants !!!, native is better and more beautiful !!!) started noticing its invasivenness and want to spent millions of dollars to eradicate that "underplant". Comparing how many wetlands were lost through farming irigation and new housing developments it would be wiser to spend this money buying land and turning it into nature preserves than killing plants that live here for two centuries. Nature evolution with or without help of human will not be stopped and some plants will be outcompeted and we can only pray that will be replaced by something that can compete with pollution of air and water. If we must eradicate some invasive plants let start with grass as killing hundred thousands of acres of lawns will make our waters less contaminated from excess chemicals and bees or butterflies will have a lot more colorful weeds to feed on we can survive with a meadows dandelions, clover and biological diversity will be improved maybe more than by eradicating purple loosestrife;-))) Caring for nature do not have to mean restoring precolonial biological diversity.

Janusz

[Cereoid-UR12-]

"naziecologist" ??

Who are you supposed to be? The Rush Limbaugh of gardening?

Lady Bird Johnson would have bitch slapped you to the ground!!!!

[Tom Jaszewski]

"For more than a century, the most popular pollinators among North American farmers have been domesticated descendants of imported European honeybees, said Thorp. He estimated that 3,500 to 4,000 species of non-domesticated bees that are native to North America can also pollinate crops?when they can survive on or near croplands. "

Stick to computers Steve!

[Some One]

I never said they were bad... I was just making a point.

Just because a foreign species is imported, doesn't make it bad.

Europe!

[Some One]

BTW...

I live in Calgary. You live in Vegas.

I deal with PC's (on the side). You peddle palm trees.

What's with all the personal stuff anyhow?

Europe!

[Tom Jaszewski]

Every summer I'd rather be in Calgary.

I don't peddle Palm trees I manage large populations in exterior and interior settings and I deal with PC's on the side as well. (oh oh common ground?) BTW they are all AMD and I'll NEVER use Intel....

You made a stand on a subject you know little if anything about. Some of us here have LOTS of experience maintaining plants, interior and exterior, with least toxic approaches. You might look at alternatives and have healthier plants and with less lwork. Unless of course you think your collecton looks good.

[e-mail]

[Mary Ellen & Chris Magoc]

GREAT POINT! [are lawns "native"????] As I recall, they were also "introduced" as well.

Mary Ellen

[Dave Fouchey]

I do my level best to minimize the amount of turfgrass area in my yard. Instead I plant mostly naturalized areas with local plants. The increase in wildlife, both absolute numbers and diversity of species, afterwards is astounding. And if the wild violets in my lawn bother someone, tough noogies. My non native plants for the most part are in pots or planters, the exceptions being roses which are hardly invasive.

Dave Dave Fouchey, WA4EMR

Lower Michigan

42° 35' 20'' N, 82° 58' 37'' W GMT Offset: -5 Time Zone: Eastern

[Frogleg]

As I understand it (and this may well be myth). grass lawns were first established in Europe to demonstrate the property owner was wealthy enough to keep land out of productive agricultural use. Of course, this is also true of flower gardens and other formal plantings. Lawns are like neckties for men. No earthly use, but a sign of respectability. :-) With recent droughts, it has become more noticable that maintaining lawn grass uses a *lot* of water. While there may be native grasses of some areas (Bermuda?) that are low-growing, no maintenance groundcovers, my mental picture of native 'grassy plains' is one with knee-to-armpit high dryish vegetation -- rather unsuitable for suburban landscape. And a fire hazard.

Providing "habitat" for native wildlife is lovely when the wildlife is birds and butterflies; less so when surburban plantings encourage snakes (which I happen to like in *small* doses), raccoons, skunks, squirrels, rabbits, rats, etc., etc.

That is, these issues rarely can be reduced to good/bad, Us vs. Them absolutes.

[Phrederik]

But what can you plant that won't get more than 5 or 6 inches tall, withstands foot traffic, doesn't invade everything around it, and looks reasonably respectable?

... especially here in very dry Zone 3a (Calgary, AB, Canada)