Re: Organic Corn Kills Butterflies??? what the?

[dr-solo]

"There has never been a greater gap between what a Seattle-Tacoma consumer pays for milk and what Washington farmers receive for that milk," the Washington State Public Interest Research Group (WashPIRG) says in a report released today. Quoting from data on the U.S. Department of Agriculture's (USDA) Web site, the group says the average price for a gallon of whole milk in this area in July was $3.52, while the government-set farm price was $1, second-lowest in the nation after the upper Midwest region, which was 99 cents." this article includes some reasons milk prices are so high.

1. I live in Wisconsin, the dairy state. There is (was?) a gradient with Wisconsin farmers getting the least in price support and price support getting higher as the distance from Wisconsin increases ... i.e. California gets the most. Most dairy farms in Wisconsin (my grandparents) were family farms, most dairy farms in Cal are agribusiness.
2. I live in Wisconsin, the dairy state. I turn on the local NPR and hear about how farmers are getting screwed with such low prices for their milk that many family farms are going out of business or getting out of the dairy business. At the same time people in Wisconsin are paying extremely high prices for milk. Wisconsin is a big "got milk" state (not that I can drink it). Thus ensues a big debate on what the HELL is going on. Senator Russ Feingold (WI) was been trying to get that "Wisconsin farmers get the lowest price supports" repealed. The idea at the time was to make sure all states were producing enough LOCAL milk for all the children and keep the prices low.

no one knows how many farmers are using rBGH cause they are not required to report same to anybody and Monsanto isnt saying either. But when the stuff came out around

1992 farmers were telling me (I was running for Congress at the time) that they were being pressured by Monsanto to use the stuff. I was part of a bipartisan group that worked to get Wisconsin to pass laws allowing labeling of milk as rBGH free (tommy thompson did sign it) to protect farmers from the wrath of Monsanto who was suing anybody labeling their products rBGH free. I did see rBGH free labeled milk for a few years, but dont see it anymore... well except Ben and Jerry's ice cream. Ingrid

"Darwin Vander Stelt" wrote: ... snip

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[LeeAnne]

I wonder if the corn borers could become resistant to a natural organism? Which, to my understanding is what the Bt is - a bacteria that affects only the borer? Much like those mosquito dunks you use in ponds -- it affects only the mosquito larvae - I think it's also some type of Bt. If I am wrong, please correct me.

LeeAnne

[LeeAnne]

You are correct, I used the wrong word - my apologies (seriously). I realize there is a huge difference, my bad.

LeeAnne

[LeeAnne]

Now that I think of it - shouldn't the bumper sticker have said "GM Corn Kills....yadda yadda yadda"?

LeeAnne

[dr-solo]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List

the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Darwin Vander Stelt]

So what else is new? Of course the grocery chains exploit the price inelasticity of milk. If they price it cheap, you won't buy a gallon more, and it can go pretty high before you buy a gallon less. They defend themselves by saying that price changes confuse consumers and they would rather not raise it when farm prices go up. Farmers have always been at the mercy of processors and supermarket chains, but, co-operative ventures into milk bottleing have usually ended up with the co-op not being able to compete for one reason or another, and the farmer -owners taking another bath. So maybe processing and marketing actually costs money. Ya think? Milk marketing is a screwed up mess (in my humble opinion) with all sorts of complex twists and turns. The gov't support price has been very low and no-one could produce milk for any length of time for those prices. The 2000 farm bill essentially tacked on a deficiency payment capped at $37,500 so that dairies under 150 cows have an effective floor of $12/cwt. Larger western dairies have been getting an effective price around $10/cwt because for 1000+ cows the deficiency payment is inconsequential. The recent surplus was caused because the normal (past 50 years) process of little dairies getting sold to bigger ones got interupted. The little ones are hanging on with the gov't payment, and the bigger ones are getting killed. We've had a lot of heat in the west and that has helped dry up the surplus, and prices have moved nearly $3, but it may go down again by winter. I have never seen the ag banks so afraid of dairy credits.

You must not confuse the federal marketing order system with the support system. The federal marketing order system is not a price support mechanism. Marketing order prices begin with market prices established on the floor of the Chicago Board of Trade cheese auctions, and also from a survey of prices paid or received by wholesalers. The federal order system mainly aims at giving all farmers an equal price and all handlers equal raw product costs. It seeks to eliminate the phenomenon of my neighbor gets one price and I get another. It discourages processors from beating farmers over the head to reduce raw product costs. And that system has gotten ridiculously complex (partly because they have to use prices to move milk to its highest and most efficient use) and I can assure you, neither of us has the time to understand it completely. Suffice it to say there has always been a lot of regional grousing about who is getting screwed by whom. Not many westerners feel sorry for Wisconsin dairymen.

I do agree with you that milk ought to be labeled for bst. Why not? Damn monsanto and the venal Republicans (and Democrats)! wrote in message news: [e-mail]...

consumer pays

[Salty Thumb]

[e-mail] wrote in news: [e-mail]:

I don't trust ex-CIA guys or their butt-buddies, but he seemed to be pretty well liked when he hosted SNL (don't know if that was pre- or post- 9-11). Of course it could have also been the free tickets and giant "CLAP" signs.

-- Salty

[Salty Thumb]

"Darwin Vander Stelt" wrote in news: [e-mail]:

If it's a situation where Monsanto and their serfs want to move to Kansas and turn it into a Dust Bowl for some spare change, I'd just as soon stand in their way.

-- Salty

[animaux]

I know of no other city in America like New York with a park system unmatched by any. Central Park is one of the largest public parks in America, in a giant city. Then there's Riverside Park and the many, many other parks all over the island of Manhattan. I lived there for 37 years. I didn't happen in as things go, I am a native New Yorker.

If you lived there, you would see how people either live in magnificent expensive apartments, or squalor on the streets in their own urine. It's one of the world's most populated cities. The room for a few very small gardens is insignificant, but put a 40 story building there and you have about 500 apartments.

There is an entire army of volunteer gardeners who garden every day in Central Park. There are a lot of ways to experience green on Manhattan.

I lived in New York when Rudy was the prosecutor. I believe it was his team who cranked down the mob related crimes of John Gotti and that ilk. He was absolutely not disliked, he ran for two terms and was beloved by the city dwellers for what he did way before 9-11. I know. I lived there most of my life.

[animaux]

In a simple one word answer, yes.

[BLueCoBra]

I think I read somewhere that the new 'breeds' of GMO corn are now being created to be sterile? That they grow when the farmer plants them and thats it, no more new plants from the left-over or dropped seeds. Any truth to this?

of the

Normally they stay within a species, but having moved the gene from bacteria to corn

[dr-solo]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List

the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.

[dr-solo]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List

the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.

[animaux]

Thanks, Jim. I fully agree. NYers have this reputation of being unfriendly. It couldn't be further than the truth. Aggressive, absolutely. Unfriendly, not hardly.

They city looks beautiful. Again, thanks to Mayor Rudy Guilliani.

[LeeAnne]

nice, lmao!!

[Bob]

Right now all that GMO pollen can fertilize non-GMO corn and

I have read that monsanto has the possibility of sueing anyone growing their patented corn without paying monsanto royalties. Could they end up collecting for most of the corn grown over time?

Bob

[Salty Thumb]

"Bob" wrote in news:Kid0b.49480$ [e-mail]:

Someone should put up a butterfly garden in the middle of corn country, and then sue the hell out of Monsanto if/when all the caterpillars die. Wind may be an "Act of God", but genetically modified pollen is not.

-- Salty

[Lar]

In article , [e-mail] says... :) Someone should put up a butterfly garden in the middle of corn country, :) and then sue the hell out of Monsanto if/when all the caterpillars die. :) Wind may be an "Act of God", but genetically modified pollen is not. :) :) You would have to plant it closer than 200 feet to the corn probably putting you on private property to begin with.

[Frogleg]

This seems reasonable. Although it *might* get tricky along the line of "this is the dog that ate the cat that ate the rat that ate the corn..."