Re: Organic Corn Kills Butterflies??? what the?

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Except the originator of this thread
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You are correct, I used the wrong word - my apologies (seriously). I realize there is a huge difference, my bad.
LeeAnne

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Yes, you certainly are. What do you think we were screaming about when, a year ago, there were no standards act in place and no labels on anything with genetically modified corn or any products for that matter.
Of course it was all chalked up to be us tree huggers and all our hysteria.
Welcome to the grand lie.
wrote:

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Everyone had better face the fact that unless there is a major cataclysm and a drastic reduction in the worlds population, the continued growth of population means that conventional agriculture will not be able to keep up with the increased demand. Bio-engineered food plants are inevitable, like it or not. Without the advantages in production gained throug bioengineering we will not be able to sustain our future population. So wake up to the facrts of life and smell the roses--they are edible so you can eat them too--some day you may have to.
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every single study of famines has found that there are only a few major contributing factors and a world wide lack of food isnt one of them. 1. mal distribution of food. 2. somebody holding onto the food to make a killing 3. people cannot afford the food 4. wars and the mass dislocation of farmers and those who work the land contrary to what most people think, Somalia is a lush and green country. it is the damned wars that have driven the people to starvation. The biggest threat to the world food supply is disruption of traditional farming practices that have developed over the thousands of years of human farming experience. And the biggest lousy practices are: 1. monoculture 2. planting non-native species ill adapted to surviving normal climate variations 3. irrigation leading to salinization 4. cash crops that destroy the soil profile 5. the use of non-organic fertilizers that dont put back nutrients and organic matter 6. over cultivation of marginal land that leads to erosion of thin soil layers. all of the above practices are inherent in the development and "pushing" of GMO crops. Ingrid
snipped-for-privacy@cs.com (Frankhartx) wrote:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net / www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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current food supply is adequate for the current world population and can sustain some increase. But if population continues to increase as it is doing then even with the best of practices it will not be sufficient without the ability to increase production supplied by the bioengineeered crops. Todays famines are not related to the world food supply but are localized phenomia with various causes. The government of Zimbabwe in what only can be described as utter madness has largely deliberately destroyed what was once a highly effecient agricultural base with the result that we can expect the people there to suffer greatly--but here in the US we waste more than enough food to fill the gap But todays famines are tactical situations, in the overall strategical picture future populaion growth will stress the present system beyond it's limits and bioengimeered crops will be a necessity.

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http://countrystudies.us/somalia/34.htm "Somalis recognize four seasons, two rainy (gu and day) and two dry (jiilaal and hagaa). The gu rains begin in April and last until June, producing a fresh supply of pasture and for a brief period turning the desert into a flowering garden. Lush vegetation covers most of the land, especially the central grazing plateau where grass grows tall. Milk and meat abound, water is plentiful, and animals do not require much care." http://somalinet.com/library/somalia/?so 46
it is not all desert. even the US has a desert (desert are extremely fertile just need water, BTW) and the plains which need irrigation to grow crops. Compare what the Israeli Kibbutzim have done with the land putting it into production vs nomadic overgrazing. http://www.birdingisrael.com/KibbutzLotan/ as an example of a desert turned into productive and sustainable agriculture. Ingrid

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net / www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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"........ http://countrystudies.us/somalia/34.htm "Somalis recognize four seasons, two rainy (gu and day) and two dry (jiilaal and hagaa). The gu rains begin in April and last until June, producing a fresh supply of pasture and for a brief period turning the desert into a flowering garden. Lush vegetation covers most of the land, especially the central grazing plateau where grass grows tall. Milk and meat abound, water is plentiful, and animals do not require much care."
The first Paragraph which you forgot to quote says..............
"Climate is the primary factor in much of Somali life. For the large nomadic population, the timing and amount of rainfall are crucial determinants of the adequacy of grazing and the prospects of relative prosperity. During droughts such as occurred during 1974-75 and 1984-85, starvation can occur. There are some indications that the climate has become drier in the last century and that the increase in the number of people and animals has put a growing burden on water and vegetation. "
And for really up to date info try....
http://wwww.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/6686f45896f15dbc852567ae00530132/fb1b8d6 7a1fd12c049256d8200279311?OpenDocument
-- David Hill Abacus nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk
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I voted for Clinton, but it was Clintons idea of American cashing in on the biotechnological boom that got the whole thing in gear. NAFTA and GAT were his babies. Ingrid

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net / www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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snipped-for-privacy@wi.rr.xx.com wrote in

uh, not unless Clinton was President in 1989 ...
http://www.chez.com/georgebush/en/news/1999/1999-06-05 /
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I didn't pay too much attention to it, all I remember was Ross Perot and Sr. Bush "NAFTA this NAFTA that", so I look it up and found that picture. Seems more like his foster-child than baby, but whatever.
-- Salty
snipped-for-privacy@wi.rr.xx.com wrote in wrote: >

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I wish Mayor Guilianni would run for president. I'd have to campaign for him. Yes, he's republican, but after seeing what that man did with New York and how he cleaned that place up to be a much better city...I'd vote for him in a heartbeat for president.
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I been to NY a few times, wouldnt want to live there altho my DH did and my in laws did at one time. there is research showing that green spaces and plants of all kinds have a tremendous effect on quality of life. No city should be without them. the point is not to give up and say "it is a huge city". it needs more green BECAUSE it is a huge city. However, that issue was picked simply cause it was first in the line and had a garden theme. There was constant commentary on TV about how disliked he was before 9-11. Nothing about his wonderful achievements. http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,1300,595523,00.html "He was yesterday's man. His awkward, abrasive character was foreground, his achievements obscured. In the summer, he had become a lead player in a Whitehall farce of marital mayhem: Rudy chooses a press conference to tell his wife, Donna, he is leaving her for another woman, Judith. Donna calls her own press conference, then kicks Rudy out of the official home."
that sums up the impression I got. Ingrid

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net / www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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snipped-for-privacy@wi.rr.xx.com wrote in

I don't trust ex-CIA guys or their butt-buddies, but he seemed to be pretty well liked when he hosted SNL (don't know if that was pre- or post- 9-11). Of course it could have also been the free tickets and giant "CLAP" signs.
-- Salty
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I am just starting to read "gangs of New York"... wish I had some idea of what streets are which cause the first couple of chapters detail where everything is (hope the rest isnt like this) it is so much like the bible, x begat y, begat z...etc. never got past the first chapter on that one either. Ingrid

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net / www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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Thanks, Jim. I fully agree. NYers have this reputation of being unfriendly. It couldn't be further than the truth. Aggressive, absolutely. Unfriendly, not hardly.
They city looks beautiful. Again, thanks to Mayor Rudy Guilliani.
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I know of no other city in America like New York with a park system unmatched by any. Central Park is one of the largest public parks in America, in a giant city. Then there's Riverside Park and the many, many other parks all over the island of Manhattan. I lived there for 37 years. I didn't happen in as things go, I am a native New Yorker.
If you lived there, you would see how people either live in magnificent expensive apartments, or squalor on the streets in their own urine. It's one of the world's most populated cities. The room for a few very small gardens is insignificant, but put a 40 story building there and you have about 500 apartments.
There is an entire army of volunteer gardeners who garden every day in Central Park. There are a lot of ways to experience green on Manhattan.
I lived in New York when Rudy was the prosecutor. I believe it was his team who cranked down the mob related crimes of John Gotti and that ilk. He was absolutely not disliked, he ran for two terms and was beloved by the city dwellers for what he did way before 9-11. I know. I lived there most of my life.
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 15:47:38 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@wi.rr.xx.com wrote:

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On but Jeeeeeeezus lovessssssssssss ussss.
Then again, Bush was hacking down non native trees on his ranch. I suppose he didn't know eastern red cedar was native. Shmuck.
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On 14 Aug 2003 01:02:17 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@cs.com (Frankhartx) wrote:

So instead of this, why doesn't the world food bank, the US, promote the end of making ten children families? I think it's a shame you think GM food is being produced because our government "cares" about us having food down the line. It's not. The lie is, "we love our people..." Bullshit. What they should say, we love our pest free corn. Cheaper to make, gives better profit, and who cares if it kills the silly monarch butterfly populations.
So, maybe you need to smell the roses and stop the complacency with regard to this disgusting thing called genetically modified food.
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WOW, now we have GM trolls putting out bumperstickers!!!!

"Organic
it
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