Re: @#*%)^@ Cats!

[graham]

You're sick!

G

[tigressnospam]

Well, I'd say quantity, quality I'd not say that. There's just so much to see and explore outside where indoors everything is the same most the time.

That being said, I think my cats live happy lives indoors though one would really love to go outdoors. He finds thingsthat make him happy though.

Alice

[paghat]

I suspect cats who've never been outdoors are totally happy with their restrained way of life. But I've seen cats that once had an outdoors but later ended up apartment cats, andtheir longing looks outside, and their recurring attempts to make a break for the outside when the door opens, makes it fairly obvious they're dissatisfied.

My sadness in seeing the cat leash laws spreading like wildfire is that cats were the one wild animal that we domesticated without pens, cages, or ropes. After a few thousand years of ranging around our homes and always returning to us, now outside forces (OUR OWN overpopulation and increasingly crowded conditions) impose decreasing liberty on an animal that in no way requires these restrictions for themselves or for their keepers to be happy with them. It is largely people who either dislike all cats, or at least dislike cats other than their own, who have decided all cats must be imprisoned or leashed, making even so little as lounging on the public sidewalk in front of their own homes punishable under law.

But as I said, I'm old enough I remember when chickens and dogs ran loose in the neighborhood, with few or no repurcussions. Being forced to imprison our cats is just one more free choice whittled away from us. The day will come when anyone who refuses to pay the Air Tax will be arrested and placed in the suffocation tank, with our heirs still responsible for the cremation costs & ash disposal tax. Nothing we take for granted, not even the freedom to breathe, is off bounds for restriction & taxation.

-paghat the ratgirl

[tigressnospam]

True. My Isis kitty's only interest in the outdoors is, "Why is she going into that scarey place?" But she has no interest in going out there. Isis has never been outdoors except when moving or going to the vet.

Gambit, who I suspect was an indoor/outdoor cat before I got him is constantly trying to get out. He did go through a period where he didn't show interest, but he's back to, "ooooh,open door, I want to sneak through."

Alice

[Cheryl]

In news: [e-mail], paghat composed with style:

Domesticated cats are very far removed from their wild ancestors no matter what any one thinks to the contrary.

I've had indoor/outdoor cats adapt very quickly and seemingly never look back. I've had strays, now a feral, and two that could go outdoors move with me to where they couldn't go out and adapted just fine. Meow at the door at certain times of the year (they probably sense Spring when the windows get opened for the first time in months) but they have lots to do, plenty of stimuli and each other for company.

[-L.]

In North America? No. Lynx are the only native feline, and those are not domesticated. Common Felis domesticus is an import species - one that was imported *as a pet*.

Just because you don't care if your cat sprays on the front door of your neighbor's porch in 100 weather doesn't mean that it is right to allow your cat to do so. Many cat owners would agree that it's not fair to those HUMANS with whom they have to share the neighborhood, to allow their domesticated animal to destroy what doesn't belong to them. If you think that's ok, you have serious lessons to learn about getting along with others, or you need to live on an isolated parcel of land where you can allow your animals to run free. Living in a community comes with compromise.

Wrong again. Include responsible cat owners in that category. I like my neighbors cats, but I simply should not have to put up with the destruction of *my* property, not to mention the medical compromization and terrorization of my own companion animals *on my property*. Sorry, but I did not work for 15 years and invest heavily in order to retire and purchase my dream home, only to have to spend much of that time cleaning up after someone else's pet. I have plenty of companion animals of my own to clean up after, TYVM. Cleaning cat spray off my front door is the last thing I want on my agenda at 7AM every Saturday moring, and unless the owner of the cat wants to stop it, I will, which I have every right to do, legally AND morally.

Here we go with the mellodrama again.

Take resposnsibility for your "pets" and you won't have laws being enacted to make YOU do so.

-L.

[animaux]

I've had cats all my life. Not once did they miss being outside. They lived long lives, happily indoors. It is human emotions, not cat requirements which cause this to a happen. My neighbor felt that way and another neighbor trapped her manx and dumped him far from home. He admitted doing it, and he wouldn't tell them where Symba was. I would rather die than have a pet be dumped to die.

I brought my cats outdoors occasionally. They were never unsupervised and never out of my sight.

[tigressnospam]

I'm sure they can live happy lives indoors. I'm just saying it would improve quality to be able to go outdoors and explore. But it will shorten quantity.. For me it's a what ist he best compromise (not everyone is going to have teh same dangers or as much danger where they live outside). I have one cat thta's perfectly fine indoors. I'm sure she'd enjoy outdoors but she is fine indoors and hasn't show interest (I'm sure she'd finally go out and decide she likes it if I left the door open and went elsewhere, but I'd rather not introduce her to something she won't miss if she never experiences).

I have another cat who has never been let outdoors (unsupervised, every now and then I'll go out with him a few minutes then pull him back in) and from when I got him he wanted out. I'm pretty sure he was an outdoor/indoor cat before. He still misses it even 2 years later and me only letting him otu in my apartment hallway (but not all that often).

All I'm saying is that I do think it would improve quality but that they can live happy lives indoors also.

Alice

[-L.]

Dunno if my first post posted, but mountain lion, cougar, "FL panther" and puma are the same species - I think FL panther is a subspecies. Lynx and Bobcat are the same species - Lynx rufus.

When I said "North America" I should have said US, and yes, I forgot about the Cougar.

-L.

[tigressnospam]

And what is your substantiated opinion?

Alice

[Martin Jensen]

Lynx canadensis - Canadian Lynx are also found in the US not just Canada.

Marty

[paghat]

Sabortooth TIger is the official state cat of California. No kiddin'.

-paghat the ratgirl

[paghat]

Removing feral cats from the environment is a good thing, but has extremely little to do with the growing movement for more taxation, liscensing fees, fines that are the real inspiration for the new leash laws for cats in America. The purpose of these regulations and fees and fines is first and foremost to raise revenues for the government. They are secondarily to restrict your pet to your house or yard. Whatever effect these leash laws may have on feral populations in America is merely incidental. Plus American feral cats tend to live in cities where displacing "natural" wildlife is not very consequential unless you mean the threat posed for pigeons and rats.

-paghat the ratgirl

[B & J]

You certainly are a cynic about political process and taxes, but you're correct in the assessment that taxes/fees/fines do raise revenues for a local governing bodies. I question whether a license for cats or a fine for non-compliance can generate significant revenue, but it might make irresponsible cat owners (I use that term with tongue in cheek!) aware that it might make a dent in their pockets when they allow their animals roam in an area where they irk neighbors. Cats are cats and we didn't allow our pets the freedom of running loose because we cherished them. We still miss the last one who died of natural causes at the age of eighteen but feel that our protection made it possible for her long life.

Now let's talk about the difference in speed limits in certain states and in small towns. Iowa cashes in on their reduced speed limit between Missouri and Minnesota, particularly if you travel through that state at the end of the month. :(

John

[paghat]

We've a pal visiting from Idaho and though we have a spare futon and plenty of room in the house, she suddenly insisted on camping out in the garden cuz she thought it was like a tiny park. It was fun and funny to see her little puptent and bedding out there. She said the birds weren't afraid of her and gathered around her at dawn. Now my sweety Granny Artemis is saying we should sleep out there too. No! Don't make me! I like my bed!

-paghat the ratgirl

[Janet Baraclough]

The message from [e-mail] (paghat) contains these words:

Do try it..preferably without a tent, just under the sky on a dry starry night. It's magic, one of life's great unsung delights, not to be missed.

Now that I'm middle aged I find my old down sleeping bag restrictive and a bit claustrophobic, which is passing strange, because in our heyday I could comfortably share it :-). So just improvise with household stuff. Good ground insulation underneath (plastic sheet under folded duvet), then loose blanket or duvet on top of you, and your usual pillows, are softee camping but ensure comfort and sleep.

Janet.

[David Hill]

I hate to think what would happen here, we have Foxes and badgers as well as a couple of feral cats prowling the place at night. Don't like the idea of providing a snack for them.

[Sharon]

Oh my yes! On average they live much, much longer than outdoor cats with a pretty good chance of having real quality of life in the later years - pretty darn good life actually! Our kitty is scared to even venture near the door and in her 16th year (hold on, doing math...) 15th.... she has awesome health and spends all of her time in my oldest son's room looking out the window, facing off between the glass with the gerbil and playing with her toys. Once cats hit that "geriatric" or "senior" age at 7-8 years old the difference in the outdoor vs. indor cats in our practice is quite obvious.

But in any case - ain't cats grand? We have a Pity Kitty hanging around our desks these days who was brought in by a good samaritan with about 3/4 of her right side burned, we think by a car engine. She's the best. The good ones always find you!

-Sharon

[murphy]

Once cats hit that "geriatric" or "senior" age at 7-8 years old the

....vet practice i assume??...i was married to one for about 100 years....so know only too well the price outdoor cats pay for their freedom...

......yes i am a real cat lover....i have two - both rescued from shelters....a himalayan brought home as an adult and a calico adopted as a kitten....they are great fun and good company....

We have a Pity Kitty hanging around our

...thats true...i think they have a list they circulate among themselves of the 'will show no resistance' humans on the planet....!!

murphy

[jammer]

I was thinking about being eaten alive by fire ants.