Outside pipe/faucet in Chicago's climate

[Newbie]

We want to instal a faucet outside the building to water the backyard lawns. (At present we have to run the hose either from inside or around the building from the front.)

The way the porches, decks, etc are, it would be convenient if teh faucet was at the side of the wooden porch, about 10' out from the brick wall.

However, a handyman tells us that in Chicago's climate we can't do this. According to him, the pipe must remain inside the heated building and the faucet should just come out of the wall.

Is he right, or with some precaution (like shutting off the water well before winters) can we have a few feet of pipe outside?

Thanks for all advice.

[Nunya Bidness]

That handyman is full of shit. Slope the outside pipe at about 2" in 10' and add a shutoff inside the house. Shut off the line before the first freeze, and open the outside tap to drain the line. I've had 6' of PVC outside for >10 years, no problems except when I forgot to turn off the line early enough. Still suggest wrapping the outside pipe with cheap foam insulation to help keep the PVC from sun and UV rays.

You might want to check with a plumber- there's some strange city codes that might apply.

[barbie gee]

Even if you can, I wouldn't.

[Newbie]

barbie gee wrote

: Even if you can, I wouldn't.

Why? Just trying to understand. Is it not enough to be careful and shut the water off before freezing?

[Sheldon]

The best method is to install frost proof hose bibs at every location... they take the place of having a separate shutoff valve inside your heated building, which sooner of later you will neglect to close.

[Adam H. Kerman]

The trick is that the valve itself is inside the heated area with only the handle in the cold. They make special valves like this for Chicago winters.

If you are ever in Schamburg, the Pace Northwest Transportation Center (off-street bus layover point just south of Woodfield Mall off Martingale) has water fountains that work all winter; pretty cool. There is a brief delay before you get water, as the valve is several feet away.

My father simply removed the faucet handle for cold weather. On the house I grew up in, it was a simple spigot with no protection from freezing at all.

[spamtrap1888]

"Shut off the line before the first freeze, and open the outside tap to drain the line. I've had 6' of PVC outside for >10 years, no problems except when I forgot to turn off the line early enough. "

The story is right there. "Shut off the line before the first freeze" is a lot like the guy on the bus telling the woman wanting directions to Main Street: "Just watch me and get off the stop before I do." I think "no problems except when I forgot to turn off the line early enough" says it all -- Do you really want to live in fear of your plumbing? One unexpected cold snap while you're out of town, and you'll have a burst pipe and an icerink in your back yard -- and maybe even your front yard.

I would have a hose bibb installed on an outside wall where it's not going to be under a porch. Then get one of those decorative hose reels that you mount to a wall, and install it on the porch in your dream location. Then could run a length of hose from the new faucet to the hose reel.

You will get in the habit of shutting off the water at the house faucet when you're done watering for the day, so no pipes will freeze. Put one of those 69 cent globe valves in series if you want to shut off the water temporarily during the day.

[spamtrap1888]

Does the code require an anti-siphon valve?

[KK]

I leave the whole kit and kaboodle on and generally only have to replace the vlave outside every Spring. It generally doesn't explode until way into January.

[Scott in SoCal]

Put a second valve inside the building. In the winter, shut off the indise valve and open the outside valve fully. This lets all the water in the freezable section safely drain out.

You can have an entire irrigation system outside as long as you drain it before the first freeze.

[Scott in SoCal]

You enjoy redoing all of your plumbing work when an inspector discovers that you didn't follow code?

[KK]

why would an inspector stop by?

[Mark Anderson]

Those strange plumbing city codes are only there to protect the plumbers union and have little to do with protecting the users of the plumbing. In Chicago most plumbing jobs are don't ask, don't tell. I have my spigot inside the basement and run a hose outside when the weather clears. That's a simple and cheap solution.

[Dioclese]

The temperature, be it at freezing, or, at 50F below is of no consequence as ice is ice is ice. It expands no further. So, by the same nature, the pipe that holds that water that turns to ice is of no further danger once it freezes. Doesn't matter if you're in upper Alaska, or southern Florida.

A simple way to take up the ice expansion is to have a garden hose connected while the hose bib valve is open. The garden hose should have a simple valve on the end for open or closed. The hose's ability to expand will take most of the compression while the valve on the end of the hose is closed.

Regarding the UPVC comment from another. UPVC is commonly available in #40 and #80. It will easily take any common water pressure. Commonly used as electrical conduit.

I have a similar arrangement in central TX. I no longer close the secondary valve that feeds the hose bib as result. Lowest temp to date has been 14F.

3' of pipe is exposed vertically.

[Gregory Morrow]

And here all along I thought you got yer water from the fire hydrant...

Yer yard is MUD anyways...just slop it down once in awhiles to disperse the cig butts and canine turds...

-- Best Greg

[Sheldon]

e nature, the pipe

That won't work, in fact that's really dumb. At 20F, typical for Chicago, the water in the hose will freeze solid right up to the hose bib in an hour, then what? You obviously didn't think this through... it can be well below freezing for many days in Chicago... the water in the exposed hose bib will freeze solid too (as if that hose wasn't there), and burst inside the foundation shooting water inside... you'll know it burst when you find a flooded basement. If you're very lucky you'll discover the damage before the temperature drops further and the saturated masonary foundation cracks into a billion bits. According to your theory millions and millions of people have been doing it all wrong... during freezing winters everyone should leave their garden hose connected with the hose bib valve open. LOL

[Tom J]

After reading all the replies, I have a suggestion that no one has mentioned that will work in your area. You have to find the winter frozen soil depth first. Here is most likely what will stop you. You have to come from the heated area at least a foot deeper than recorded frozen soil depth and stay that deep to where you want the faucet. The faucet you want is a valve that mounts to the pipe you put in below freeze depth that has the on and off rod up through the stand pipe hooked to a leaver at the faucet to turn it on and off. You have to have a gravel bed below the valve in the bottom of the trench because when you turn the valve off, all water drains out of the stand pipe that is connected to the valve. Your friendly plumbing supply will have these in stock that reaches the depth you need & can tell you someone qualified to install it. This is the type valve on the drinking fountains someone else mentioned, but didn't know how they worked.

For what you want, that's too expensive. Put the freeze proof faucet through the wall and run a re-enforced hose to where you want the faucet and use adapters that are available to put a faucet on that "summer outside pipe" hose.

Tom J

[Scott in SoCal]

Because you were a law-abiding citizen and applied for a building permit before you began your work, of course.

Eithert that or your neighbor ratted you out.

[Scott in SoCal]

They said the same thing back in 1870.

[Scott in SoCal]

However, if you dig a deeper basement, you'll have more time to shut the water off at the main before the level rises high enough to damage something valuable.