OT: Child Abuse

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This article from the New Yorker details a writer's one-week experiment feeding her family a version of the Paleo diet.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/07/28/stone-soup
I hasten to say that I never even HEARD of said diet until recent postings on this NG, so am in no position to take a position pro or con, even if I wanted to, so PLEASE let's not go there!!!
So many things askew with the writer's observations, it would take a book, so just mentioning it for entertainment value.
HB (omnivore)
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On 07/21/2014 09:06 AM, Higgs Boson wrote:

Hi Higgs,
Fun article. She left out the discovery of beer and its affect on the development of agriculture.
She also did not mention that your body has an adjustment period to switch back from carbs to fats. She did point out the T2 crisis.
On the "Child Abuse" front (relax, I know you were kidding), one of my customer's had her teen age son diagnosed with attention deficit disorder (ADD). Knowing that the drugs prescribed for ADD would leave him hopelessly addicted to cocaine the rest of his life, she refused treatment and put him on Paleo. And guess what happened? No ADD after about one week. It was a wonderful gift she gave her son.
We had a wonderful time comparing our diets. By the way, they (whole family went Paleo) had about a one week adjustment period from carbs to fat too.
And, if you still are hungry, eat another piece of meat, eat a piece of cheese, drink some (real) broth ...
Thank you for sharing.
Grok on!
-T
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On 22/07/2014 2:06 AM, Higgs Boson wrote:

:-)) She hit the nails right on their heads.
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Higgs Boson said:

"There must be some reason that the U.S. government has kept the dark truth about spelt and tofu hidden from us. Durant blames 'the vegetarian lobby.' Teicholz suspects 'olive oil money.'"
LOL Olive oil money! Thanks for the link.
And, sorry, I can't resist:
Weird how thousands of years of eating grains caused T2 diabetes to explode *recently* in modern societies (the exception being some groups like the Inuit, who never had agriculture, and Pacific Islanders, who did not have grain crops, thus never went through an adaptive period).
Which timing suggests to me that other factors are involved. One possibility, known to promote obesity, is antibiotics (introduced in the late 1940s). Processing corn into high fructose corn syrup might be another (HFCS was first introduced in 1957).
--
Pat in Plymouth MI

"Yes, swooping is bad."
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On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 8:07:51 AM UTC-7, Pat Kiewicz wrote:




late


Pat, re: high fructose, I immediately joined the "holier-than-thou" crowd b y intensifying my already intense label reading to detect HF. But recently I saw a respectable article (meaning not planted) re-examining this. Dammi t, wish I had kept it. If I find, will post. Meantime, still avoiding. I t's such a plain economic decision...
HB

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On 07/22/2014 08:07 AM, Pat Kiewicz wrote:

Hi Pat,
For starters, it is not the same grain they ate back then. And, it is not even the same grain you ate 20 years ago. (A farmer customer of mine told me about hybridizing the stocks so they don't fall over from the weight of the kernel. He claims that all their hybridizing is the cause of all the allergic reactions to it.)
Ancient humans ate seeds. As grains had not yet been hybridized, the quantity they could get a hold of was far, far less. Two heads of wheat was probably more seeds than they could pick in a day. And the seeds they did find, were not unnaturally hybridized for carbohydrates.

What "adaptive period"? That is not how evolution works. T2 maims and kills you *after* you reproduce. No natural selection involved. Darwin would be turning in his grave.

Antibiotics have been linked to all kinds of nasty after effects: rashes, asthma, yada, yada. Antibiotics can save you life, but you must manage the after effects. A good probiotic can help. (I like Primal Flora, seems to be the only one I have come across that actually works.)
I think what you don't want to consider is that the quantity of carbs consumed has been going up and up and up, especially with the lack of or poor home cooking. Kind of like the elephant in the living room no one wants to acknowledge.

HFCS is truly nasty. Bear in mind that their effect is the same as any other grain. To your body, it is like eating a bag of sugar. So, eating HFCS, or a plate of spaghetti, or (ha ha) health carbs, has the same effect.
High carb diets are not natural to humans. If you are not the one out of six that will get T2 from it, then, by all means enjoy yourself. Pretty bad odds I would say, but, to each his own. Backfired on me for sure. I believed all the s*** about healthy carbs.
Here is another factor you are not considering: those of us that have injured ourselves (carbohydrate poisoning or T2 Diabetes) GET BETTER when we go Paleo and/or low carb. We lead normal lives. Some T1's too. Our feet don't fall off. We don't lose our eyesight or have heart attacks. We are not on the kidney transplant list.
What concerns me about your point of view is that people will continue to get maimed and killed while you continue to look for reasons why a unnatural diet high in carbohydrates is not the cause.
And these high carb diets are so addictive that I know of one man would killed himself and one who is falling apart on the installment plan because they refuse to give them up.
Eat what you want to eat. I really don't care. You have been warned. And no one is trying to rip your carbs out of your mouth.
-T
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On 7/22/2014 1:31 PM, Todd wrote:

Oh, like he'd know. He's a farmer, not a physician.

Humankind has been selecting and hybridizing plants since the invention of agriculture. That's what agriculture is all about.
Two heads of wheat was probably

The plants they grew were selected and sometimes hybridized to increase yield, meaning increased carbohydrates.

There's one factor that is simple, obvious, and unnoticed: our eating patterns have changed. Metabolic disease and obesity are both influenced not only by what we eat, and how much we eat, but also by how often we eat. People traditionally had to work hard and didn't have much time to spend preparing and eating food. Thus they would typically eat somewhere between 1-3 times per day. Nowadays, people are eating all the time. We're doing to ourselves what we do to animals in feedlots, and the end result is the same - we gain weight. Worse, we're screwing with our metabolism by keeping our bodies constantly busy digesting food.
Research has shown that the liver is always busy doing one of two things: it is either secreting enzymes to help digest the food you recently ate, or it is secreting different enzymes to help break down stored body fat. If you're snacking all the time, even if you're eating lower-calories foods, your liver has no time to work on body fat. Better to cut out snacking. Best of all for weight loss, as learned by testing on mice and humans, is to limit oneself to two daily meals within an eight hour window, thus giving the liver a whole sixteen hours to work on body fat. Not everyone can do that, but at least stop nibbling between meals. Don't stress your metabolic system by keeping it constantly busy working on the food you just ate.
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On 07/23/2014 06:49 AM, Moe DeLoughan wrote:

Agreed. Plus we are eating too many carbs in amounts that do not occur naturally in nature. And all kinds of food like substances that even our grandparents did not eat (not invented yet!).
Mark's Daily Apple's web site is giving me fits. If you look at his Primal Blueprint, you will notice that is has a lot to do with exercise and some on fasting. And on tribe/family/loved ones.
I think it is this link, but I can not verify it at this time:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/
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On Wednesday, July 23, 2014 6:49:52 AM UTC-7, Moe DeLoughan wrote:

I am agnostic on the subject of meal frequency, due to vast ignorance. But the received wisdom for past decades has been small, frequent meals rather than a few big ones. Supposed to be easier to digest. How does that fit with your reporting? Straight question.
HB
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On 07/23/2014 04:16 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

Hi Higgs,
This from a Diabetic and Paleo perspective.
Your body will tell you when to eat. You get hungry. All the metering and monitoring are already build in by the master bioengineer.
This can be messed up when you eat unnatural amounts of carbohydrates (fuel outside the specifications of the design). Your blood sugar will spike and then plummet. We call it a "hypo" for Hypoglycemia.
In the worst case, you first will get crazed with hunger, then you will pass out. Typically, you will get weird hungry when you shouldn't (eventually you get diabetes).
Low blood sugar is not an issue with me and my Diabetes, as I am drug free and can not get a hypo. My overly helpful liver will provide me with all the stinkin' glucose I ever will need, whether I want it or not. Diabetics that use insulin have all kinds of issues with hypos. And, Paleo diabetics don't need any stinkin' drugs.
So basically, make sure you feed yourself the proper fuel (stay in spec for the design) and your body will tell you when to eat.
Random periodic tiny fasts won't hurt either. Grok had to "catch" his food before he could actually eat it. Probably munched all the time on various bugs and plants during the process. Yum. Snack Food for the hunt. If he was like me when I am fishing, he was probably to busy having fun to eat.
And, remember that Grok chased and ate his food with his family/friends/tribe. So, remember to eat with your loved ones, not by yourself.
-T
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On Thursday, July 24, 2014 2:05:37 PM UTC-7, Todd wrote:

But the received wisdom for past decades has been small, frequent meals ra ther than a few big ones. Supposed to be easier to digest. How does that fit with your reporting? Straight question.

This from a Diabetic and Paleo perspective.
[...]
Any comments from other perspective/s? This claim -- about multiple small meals rather than several huge ones being better because easier to digest - has been around so long that I would value other members' input. In gener al, I tend to re-examine "received wisdom". Sometimes it pans out, sometime s not. Waddyathink?
HB

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On 23/07/2014 11:49 PM, Moe DeLoughan wrote:

Yup.
People traditionally had to work hard and didn't have much time to

Actually they spent huge amounts of time preparing food. These days most food is too conveniently available. In the days when whole animals had to be eaten and vegetable had to be grown and not just bought, food preparation was a skill. These days few people know how to cook from scratch or would even know what some vegetables are (just front up to some checkout staffed by a pimply faced youth with a veg without a bar code or shrink wrap).
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On 07/23/2014 06:49 AM, Moe DeLoughan wrote:

Hi Moe,
True. I think you would be hard pressed to find a edible plant that was not hybridized. The purslane (salad) I am eating on right now adores "disturbed" soil, meaning, that, even though it comes from wild seeds, it was hybridized at one time.
I am not against hybridizing. I am against hybridizing for unnatural levels of carbohydrates. I think we should try to hybridize the carbs down and the fats up in grains to help stop the tidal wave of carbohydrate poisoning (T2 Diabetes) worldwide.
Purslane, raw: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2604/2 1 cup = 1 gram carbohydrates. Now we are talking!
If you believe Purslane's proponents, it is the most nutritious plant on the planet. Yummy too. Love it with my home make ranch dressing. Very easy to grow too. You just have to walk on the ground to disturb the soil. I almost never water it either.
Take a look at the nutrition numbers on the above link. It will blow your mind.
I am also against grafting genes from a chicken on to a weasel, but that is not hybridizing, thank you so much Doctor Frankenstein.

I think there may be more layers to this onion than is apparent. Here is a fun article that flies in the face of conventional wisdom:
Obesity Theories Challenged By Hunter-Gatherer Study http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/248333.php
A new study comparing the lifestyle of Westerners with that of hunter-gatherers challenges the idea that the current obesity crisis is due to lack of physical activity. The researchers suggest the more likely explanation is over-consumption of calories, particularly due to the presence of energy-dense foods in the Western diet.
"energy-dense foods". Read: artificially hybridized for high carbohydrates.
By the way, the original exercise was called "work".
-T
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On 23/07/2014 1:07 AM, Pat Kiewicz wrote:

:-)) Yes, it is very weird indeed. It's a hoot of an article.

I think if you do a google you will find that the use of HFCS is pretty much a North American thing. Here in Aus (and in NZ where they mentioned high diabetes levels in the New Yorker article), the sweetener of choice would be sugar cane based.
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Fran Farmer wrote:

If you consider age (we are living long enough to get more old-age diseases showing themselves), genetic predisposition, obesity and lack of exercise you don't need to go looking for a "magic" solution to T2D. There is no particular food that causes it. But the way reporting of health issues go these days, regardless of the problem, there must always be some wonder food you must eat or some terror you must never eat. Bollocks.
--
David

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On 23/07/2014 7:55 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:

Based on my reading, I'd agree with that.
But the way reporting of

Indeed. Snake oil salesmen abound.
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Todd said:

Right, an anecdote. Not buying it.

Darwin is not the be-all and end-all of evolutionary biology. Lots of science happened after Darwin. And human evolution never stopped happening.
Consider...
The decrease in height and health when agriculture was first adapted was followed by a return to previous norms after many generations.
The ability to digest lactose spreadingas a trait through populations.
The grandmother effect.
selective advantage (even a small one) + time = evolution
<http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/evolutionary-adaptation-in- the-human-lineage-12397#>
<http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/new-evidence-that- grandmothers-were-crucial-for-human-evolution-88972191/>
Todd, I'm a science geek who graduated with honors from Lyman Briggs College at MSU. My daughter is a zoologist. We live and breathe this stuff at home.
--
Pat in Plymouth MI

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On 07/23/2014 07:52 AM, Pat Kiewicz wrote:

It was clearly his opinion. It is up to you to evaluate it. I think he has a point.

Has Darwin's natural selection theory been revised? Can you tell me what it has been revised to?

You don't think sanitation and medicine had anything to do with that?

I am not seeing that. Do you have a study showing people adapting to lactose? As far as I can tell, you stop drinking milk and then go back to it and you become very antisocial.
And, the inability to digest cows milk sometimes has to do with the fats and not the lactose, which is why switching to goat's milk can help some.
Lastly, lactose intolerance is traced to your ancestry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance No mention of any improvement, based on time.

No Natural Selection, no evolution. Random changes get "diluted". This is standard Darwin again. What do you think has replaced Darwin's Natural Selection theory?

This is all classic Darwin. There is Natural Selection involved.

Wonderful article. But I don't see how it applies? Yes, Grandmothers can be special people, but Menopause, which the article is about, happen well after reproduction (natural selection). Are they trying to state that Granny helping around the house helped in natural selection? I don't get it.

I graduated with honors too. With an engineering degree. I too am a science geek. What was you degree in?-T
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On 24/07/2014 2:18 AM, Todd wrote:
I too

That certainly isn't on display in this ng.
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On 07/24/2014 06:07 PM, Fran Farmer wrote:

Huh. This from an ideologue, whom you don't dare challenge her religiously held axioms.
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