"Jangchub" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...
I had no idea of your experience. I respect that. Your experience in green house plants is something I admire. I am going to try a veggie garden this year. My part is getting the soil (organic mushroom soil) and leaf compost to help keep down unwanted plants of ones that I do not understand. The garden will pretty much be new to me. I now know a person to contact regarding herbs and green houses. I strongly advise that no one believe it because I say it but because they see it for themselves. I had no clue as to who you were or your background. Please forgive me for any statements I have made that might have offended you.
As far as me - an letter addressed to Don Staples: I make decisions based on tree biology when possible regarding forest health or tree farm health. You refer to that as a fraud and your contribution to forest health? I understand that you have a background in wood products, yet that seems limited when you made comments on the use of a Shigometer to detect the quality of wood. from your website you seem to make decisions based on board foot ant not tree biology. Your efforts seem to be geared towards tree farming and not forest health management. When you claim to be a forester that seems to be miss leading and somewhat fraud like, I.e., if you must insist on uncovering fraud. not that I don't respect your tree farming efforts to provide needed wood products for humans. I just claim that tree biology needs to be considered when managing trees and their associates in tree farming (commercial sale of wood from once fertile forest). You call that a fraud and a con artist? I would not feel comfortable calling you that, but then seldom does progress come from comfort. If I was involved with a decision making process in tree farming projects I would insist that other people be involved in the process, e.g., including but not limited too, wildlife biologist, soil scientist, water ecologist as well as my understanding of tree biology. I.e., only when the person or persons tree farming their single stand or group of trees under one or more ownership desires to take tree biology into consideration. SHIGOMETRY would be a very useful tool for someone that understands tree anatomy such as the difference between sapwood trees and heartwood forming trees, the difference between sapwood and heartwood, the difference in electrical resistance of discolored or color altered wood from a wound or injury from sapwood or heartwood. Exposing the flaws in the heartrot concept would be of some value. There is just so much more than board feet to take into consideration when tree farming. I am surely not the only person who has an understanding of tree biology even though I have studied tree biology more than most and not as much as some Studying your website Don Staples, it appears that you are very much into tree farming with a background in wood products which is limited due to the lack of understanding of tree anatomy. When we start with a 2x4 and try to understand wood decay, it becomes very confusing. Many properties of wood products is determined when the product was part of the growing and ever changing tree. E. g., wood that was chemically altered from a wound or injury when it was part of a tree system (redundant, a tree is a system) is the first place carpenter ants and termites will go when it is made into a wood product. The quality of the wood can be detected quickly and with accuracy with a thorough understanding of tree anatomy and the use of a Shigometer. Wood anatomy is different than tree anatomy which I do not expect you to understand and I do expect you to argue that fact out of ignorance. That's tree farming and wood products in a nut shell.
Forest health is another topic. With limited to little to no understanding of tree biology it is hard to understand the unique functions and processes of a forest. Cutting the wood out of a forest at this date and time is something that is better left to tree farming and tree farms which I addressed in the latter paragraph. Logging - Briefly, "with respect." - It has been published that logging is removing or cutting out present and future coarse woody debris from a forest, woods or a field. Logging is removing, probably the single most, present and future, important habitat and potential niche for the survival of organisms in drastically altered systems. ...dying and symplastless wood provides one of the two or three greatest resources for animal species in a forest. ..if fallen timber and slightly decayed trees are removed the whole system is gravely impoverished of perhaps more than a fifth of its fauna. Logging is removing future reservoirs and storehouse of nutrients as well as elements for fauna and flora. In respect, to such projects as the "Burn and Clearcut Project"" - Logging is the killing of trees. Logging is removal of most of the stem of one of the largest, longest lived contributors to the once fertile forest health. the wood out of a once fertile forest is not in the interest in forest health. A thorough understanding of the relationship between trees and their associates in a forest is the backbone of legislature in the USA to end commercial logging or federal public land and allow these tracts of land to be the forest they were supposed to be when called National Forest, etc. My role as the consulting forester which I clearly define in my dictionary, is to contribute in writing comments based on my understanding of tree biology (defined in my dictionary) backed by peer reviewed published data in refereed journals when possible, regarding the importance of such legislature with respect to forest health. The bill takes steps to help communities and displaced loggers.
I have great respect for Don Staples and his tree farming business and website which explains just what he does and so forth. I do think due to his lack of understanding of tree biology and tree anatomy he would be best described as a consulting tree farmer. I still believe he should bring in other people specializing in tree biology and wildlife and so on. Logging is hard work, which I do not think Don Staples actually picks up a chain saw, which I have learned by working for a logger. As well as the suggested
4 year course to in wood products to be a tree farmer I would add that a degree in hemp products would serve well. Hemp farming could provide much required material for an ever growing industry. If you do not understand and use a SHIGOMETER in wood product production you are not doing all you can do to provide high quality products. I do have a great understanding of wood products in that area due to my understanding of tree anatomy. I am working on a project that addresses goals of tree farms and one on forestry (management of forest) goals, their things in common and things not. E.g., a fertile forest could be the site of optimum fertility levels for trees, a tree farm would not.
When either I am consulting on tree farming or forests, some of my foundations starts with these docs: Its a start.
formatting link
Tree Farming and Machine Wounds
formatting link
Wood Products Defects:
formatting link
Some of my comments on the latter can be found here
formatting link
Closing Statement:
What's important is that tree biology is considered when making decisions on forest health. Trees have many associates that greatly depend on healthy systems for survival. History shows that in St. Louis - USA, the Mississippi Valley Laboratory was established in 1899. The director at that time was Dr. Herman von Schrenk. Studies on wood decay and discoloration (woundwood) were done mostly. In time, the studies drifted toward wood products. In 1907 the lab was discontinued and the Forest Products Laboratory at Madison, Wisconsin took over. The major focus of the lab was on wood products decay - "Tree biology never had a chance". For more see TREE PITHY POINTS by Alex L. Shigo. Too often decisions in tree farming and on tree farms are based on board foot rather than management based on an understanding of the ecological stages of trees and their associates. Too often over looking trees and associates requirements. Sure you can claim I am not a forester, but first define what you mean when "you" say "forester". I have in my dictionary.
formatting link
I do not claim to be anything else. When commercial interest dictates the method and treatments of National Forest, associates too often suffer. I see it in urban wood management. The biggest problem, some say, is getting the wood out fast enough and without criticism. Is that what you mean when "you" say "forester"? Surely I have much more to learn then I have learned regarding the ecological stages of trees and their associates and the relationship between the two. A once fertile forest does more than just function as a supply of wood for humans. Surely man would benefit by legalizing commercial hemp and the products it can produce. It is said that George Washington's first flag was made of hemp. The Constitution was written on hemp. Sure I am a consumer. Toilet paper is a requirement to me. We need to separate the forest from the tree farms. Tree farmers need help and also would benefit by an understanding of tree biology in managing their non-renewable natural resource. A good understanding of cellulose and the role it plays on healthy soils "should" be of interest to tree farmers. Its sad when it is not. Just my crazy thoughts. Surely no one on this list endorses me or my thoughts. But they are mine and not theirs. That's what makes me unique. Imagine a world where all pathogens went away! Ignorance of tree biology still remains a serious problem for trees and their associates worldwide. We are an associate, friend or foe. I repeat, by your definition I am not a forester. Please define what one is in your words. And I religiously say " don't believe anything because I said it" "believe it because you see it for yourself". When payment for making a tree safe, in a once fertile forest, is the harvest of the wood, its a bad situation. Rather than making a snag which could be safe for many years, housing many flying squirrels - they are displaced by removing the wood. The professional who would make the snag should be well paid for that skill and risk as well as the ground person or persons. Thus not having to rely on the wood for payment. It hurts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Again, just my crazy thoughts! An interesting book, if you have not read it, is A NEW TREE BIOLOGY. It comes with its own dictionary. It should be at your local library. The book is listed at
formatting link
Too many people want to be made robots. Training without education makes robots. Education without training makes waste. Waste is an human term for inefficient management of substance or thing. A forest knows no waste. Sorry about by ignorance in the difference between a tree farmer, a tree farm and a forester and a forest. Enough of my thoughts, what're yours?
One more thing to take into consideration. My professor who was the chief scientist in a pioneering expedition into tree decay with the US Forest Service was, including but not limited too, a tree biologist, a mycologist, and ecologist, a forest researcher, a teacher, a genus with trees and a musician left us with his last TREE PITHY POINT #950 and I quote "Ignorance of tree biology has been, and still is, the major cause of tree problems worldwide." Knowing the man very well I would say that that includes tree farms as well as forest. Not to forget he was a wood products specialist, starting with the tree to understand decay, the succession of microorganism, termites, ants and much more with respect to wood products.
Sincerely, John A. Keslick, Jr. Consulting Tree Biologist with respect to forest and / or tree farms.
formatting link
formatting link
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology. Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss.
Why not get together and dissect some of your doughnuts. Your wounds were big and I was not sure of them. My ignorance. I would have to dissect like I did with the peach tree.
Well i certainly doubt "wanting to help" explains persistent irrational claims of expertise. If someone pretends to be a doctor and attempts to give medical advice, that's overtly harmful and dangerous, also crazy if the chap believes he's really a doctor. So too giving oneself all sorts of biology and arborist and forestry titles without any license or education to back that up is just a tad loony.
So I rather suspect a mental disorder born of justifiably low self esteem having given rise to a desire to be regarded as "the" expert without the wherewithal to first obtain any expertise. We all tend to feel transiently expert in any topic for which we just finished reading and enjoying one book. The sane don't persist for years and years in advertising such expertise without basis in reality.
I never claimed to be normal, maybe more so in middle age than I'm proud of, but never entirely. But i do find it easy to ignore symptomless's posts. I doubt I read more than one in 1,000 of his bazillion posts, and that one only because I wasn't paying attention to what I was opening. He's been doing this same stuff for years, has been chased away periodically from sundry newsgroups, but always returns, sometimes with amazing paranoid rants a boasts of mightiness in his imaginary realm. There's never anything new so no reason to read it again -- but I greatly enjoy reading peoples' responses, partly so as to be sure everyone already knows not to take the advice seriously (they almost always do know that), but even more because responders are often very witty and one of the cool things about usenet is the comedy.
You got me on this one. Let me guess, another CUT.
Please define forest.
CUT
CUT
Please define forest.
CUT
TO CUT
CUT
??????????????????
What he does besides cut the wood out of once fertile forest - tree farming CUT
An uderstanding of tree biology for starters.
If you understand tree biology than please explain why the only treatment you offer is cutting out the wood?
How do you help forest with respect to the ecological stages of trees and things like fungi diversity? Please comment.
Do you use a SHIGOMETER and if not why not?
You have fancy names but have yet to even define what you mean when you say "forest"? What is a forest to you besides future tree farms to get the wood out?
You say soil mapping? What is the optimum fertility levels for Eastern hemlock. Or in Texas, what is the optimum fertility level for live oaks?
What is an urban forest? Please define what you mean when you say forest.
How do you manage wildlife? By helping people not miss the opportunity to salvage the wood from the wildlife. You are a taker.
Why would I dissect my trees donuts? What would be the point? The trees are as healthy as can be. If they decline it will be due to the way they were impacted during the building of my house 8 years ago. It takes a while for a live oak to show decline.
Unlike you, deadwood, I don't have to write a dictionary to acquire some level of education or expertise that you seem to want, but will never obtain. The four or five shelves of books, from college and continuing education, define what a forester does, his background, his phylosophy.
I ask again, other than your dumb ass dictionary, what education do you have, other than the day courses put on by Dr. Shigo, where you were a saw hand?
You will never understand compartmentalization and CODIT unless you dissect trees. When you dissect the sample we will both see the result of your treatment (access) and then better understand trees.
The
What do you consider a healthy trees?
If they decline it will be due to the
I have dissected many live oaks in transverse, radial and tangential view.
Sometime maybe we could dissect some trees together.
Cut cut cut, forester forester forester making decisions out of the ignorance of tree biology. Those poor associates of trees in your area.
When you do something for a living beside convincing yes convincing people to cut the wood out of their property maybe I will respect you. Otherwise, get a life.
What? Well, trees which do what they are supposed to do at the proper time of year, which can tolerate levels outside their comfort zone and which do not show a display of compensatory growth.
Billy wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@c-61-68-245-199.per.conne ct.net.au:
indeed! i just had my woods (@ 40 acres) harvested. it worked like this: i called one company. the guy comes in, looks at the woods from the driveway & says: "I can get you $10,000. from that" i call a second company. they send out their forester he & i take a walk through the woods. i point out some things i see. he points out some overcrowding & disease issues. we talk about wildlife habitat & interesting species of trees & animals/birds we would like to encourage. he goes back to his office & writes up a detailed proposal, explaining three different methods of harvest & their enviromental impact, which says somewhere near the end that timber value is likely to be between $7,000 to $9,000. i hire him & his logger to do the harvest, using the proposal with the least impact but the most advantage for wildlife habitat. then i wait for the ground to freeze or snow to fall. can't cut in my woods unless it's frozen, as i have very wet soil & it would damage the tree roots except when frozen & preferably with a good foot or more of snow cover. i wait over one whole open warm winter, through the summer, & in December this year (just before my EPA & state permits expired) it snowed. a lot. and they came & cut the trees. several times during the process the forester came out & we went through the woods so he could show me & explain what was going on. i added a few trees i thought should go (white pine!) even though they were useless even as pulp. we discussed leaving a few dead snags as bird/bug hotels, a very old maple that's just a really cool looking huge old tree, etc. i'm very pleased with the results. i have a large number of veneer maple that will be ready to harvest in 12 more years (marked so i don't tap them for syrup) & an ideal habitat for turkey, deer & my endangered Blanding's turtles. *that* is what a forester does. lee
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.