Leaf Mold, Do Tell..

[Charlie]

This statement should become a standard. I've added it to my garden quotes file, with proper attribution, of course. :-)

Ok, this has me thinking about what I have been doing, which is loosening the soil with a garden fork, or better if I had one, a broadfork. I'm certainly not arguing, just looking for the easiest and most beneficial way of improving and maintaining my soil.

My thinking, and others too, is that loosening the soil with a fork allows for aeration and sifting downwards af soil amendments...compost, ash, powdered stone, whatever. Is this too a waste of my energy and time and not that beneficial? I do raised beds and containers, so compaction from foot traffic is not an issue. One thing for sure, I haven't used a tiller for several years. Shooting rabbits in the garden doesn't trouble me, or pinching caterpillars of the bad kind, but the sight of chopped worms is just wrong.

Is what you are describing also described as "The Stout Method"? I thought the biointensive method as espoused by Jeavons sounded best and it was beginning to produce great results. One thing I didn't do, was the double (or even triple) digging that is recommended in some of the biointensive methods.

This whole business of food production is appearing to be more simple than I had imagined, and I am continually deconstructing my methods and knowledge. I guess the old KISS acronym applies.

Thanks for the re-direction.

Charlie

[William Wagner]

Starting On a Journey 2:35 Yoshida Brothers The Yoshida Brothers World 100 1 8/9/06 6:02 PM

Bill who wonders what best practice is and is VERY GRATEFUL 2 inches of rain came last night.

[Charlie]

I am not familiar with them, though I shall be before the night is over. ;-). Right now I am still singin' the blues....with Katie Webster......"Two Fisted Mama!" Red Negligee is playin' right now.

Some times I wonder if I had to choose between the eyes or the ears, which I would give up. Not being especially hindered in either, I can't say for sure, but I know I would miss greatly miss the music.

Best practice maybe is being being open and thoughtful and loving in our practices, whatever they be. Moisture conservation is of prime concern now, so it seems. She's warming up, Bill. Faster than we thought.

Charlie

[Billy]

The opine that I'm working with is that loosening the soil in the manner you described would damage the hallways the worms have built (reducing aeration of the soil and damage the mycelium of fungi in the garden beds. Both are important for the ecology of the bed. If your beds aren't raised, you may want to consider stepping stones to spread out the pressure from foot steps and reduce compaction. I'm trying to grow clover between the stones.

My current plan is to lay down newsprint or card board on the garden as it shuts down and then spread mulch on top of that. Maybe I'll add some bone meal and phosphate as well.

How long is it till March?

[Charlie]

Hmmmm........so maybe this forebrain thing ain't so great when it comes to gardening. Just need to bee the worm and the turnip?

Seriously, very very good point and I'm totally rethinking the whole thing.

My beds are raised and will obviously continue to raise, with the addition of mulch, compost and other organic matter, won't they?

Now, now, Billy........you be wishing your life away. You need winter for reflection and rejuvenation, as does your soil.

Obacht-Bruder Charlie

[cat daddy]

I'm honoured. Had I known I would have fancied it up with talk of Daleks and mychorrizae and "It's not humus!" and stuff........... Nah...

I won't pretend to have an answer here. But, I noticed that after a few years of incorporating soil ammendments with a fork, it always seemed to revert to the same come Spring. Sandy loam that's fine when damp and rock hard when dry. I figured the plants roots would best adjust to homogenous soil, rather than a top layer of potting mix and then hit normal soil. Billy said it best that perhaps it's doing more damage to the soil strata, that then has to recover.

Yeah, it pained me that I might be trashing the worms environment. I stopped using Miracle Gro when I noticed that the worms seemed to seek refuge around a plants roots, away from the chemical bath I was giving them. I rarely even water the beds anymore. Some things do better than others, and the ones that don't are not meant to be. I have some day lillies in the front beds that rarely bloom, next to the hippeastrum that bloom and reproduce like rabbits. The transplanted day lillies in the back that I really neglect bloom nicely.

I kinda came to my own conclusions, but it most definitely parallels the Stout Method. Mostly because I was disinterested in the digging, and in the two houses I've lived in, I inherited long neglected beds. So, I'd throw some mulch on top and see what came up the next year. I couldn't really wreck it all by digging it up, and after planting a few extra things, it became impractical to do so.

And your discussions here have re-directed my interest in growing something edible, rather than ornamental. Actually both, as next year I'm going to rip out the shrubs along the street and plant peppers. Anyone who wants to pick them as they walk by are welcome. And maybe peas and beans, instead of wisteria on the trellises and fence. Front yard food......

[Charlie]

As you well should be honoured. You have presented the process as it naturally occurs. As with so many things we undertake and try and attempt to "improve", we are often our worst enemy in many processes.

And this brings another thought to mind, When cleaning up and out in the fall/early winter I pull plants from the ground, roots and all, disturbing a large area of soil. I wonder if cutting the plant at ground level would be a better approach, leaving the roots and surrounding nutrients undisturbed?

Disinterested in the digging is putting it mildly! ;-) Those of us in our advanced years loath this amount of work (as do our aching bodies).

What a great idea, this sharing with passersby! Nice, very nice.

Front yard food is a great idea, particulary given the way thigs be developing........feh, who needs a lawn to maintain.

Some of our most valued and appreciated, by us and others, plants in the garden/patio area are the peppers we grow in containers. The foliage and the fruit are gorgeous. One of everyone's favorites this year were the tobascos, with their bright upright fruit. Golden Marconis are a tall pepper, nearly five feet, with eight inch oblong golden fruit, heavily laden and great raw, fried, roasted, grilled. The Ruffled Pimientos are a beautiful fruit that turns from glossy dark green, through shades of maroon, to a deep red.

There are so many edibles that are beautiful as ornamentals. Okra has incredibly beautiful blooms, hibiscus-like. We planted Hill Country Red this year, that has red tinged foliage and red stems, with red and green striped fruit.

Check out these folks for heirlooms that look great and are great tasting. I'm not shilling for them, I just buy from them every year. Never a problem in many years of supporting ther efforts.

All have great paper catalogs that are full of good info.

[Ann]

Charlie expounded:

We need winter to have Spring, my favorite season. Renewal.

[Charlie]

My favorite season is autumn. Harvesting, preparing for the lean times of winter, a winding down. I like winter pretty well also, with the seasonal celebrations and family times 'round the fire, so to speak.

I wonder if peoples' personalities dictate their seasonal preferences and or weather preferences. I prefer gloomy rainy/snowy days, always have.......kinda matches my dispostion, ya' think? ;-)

Charlie

[William Wagner]

I like them all but I also like to see them transform or go. Early Dec snow is wonderful but about April it is time to see new life. Summer heat and swimming a joy but dry crisp fall becomes desirable. In a way what we have we like but soon tire of it and want change perhaps. This with the knowledge that San Francisco or Mykonos are alluring. My son was at a house on Mykonos last week. . Photos are beautiful with sea and sky but plant life is rare. I'd say desolate. But some folks say plant life and others say plant material. New growth in the spring and who does not think a little bit of Druid lies in one's heart. Now where is that mistletoe we found ? Dark sky can be forboding or a promise of rain.

Bill

[Ann]

Charlie expounded:

Oh, I dunno, I love a good rainy day, too. But autumn - it's nice, but it means death to me. Those beautiful leaves have reached the end of their stay here, now it's time for them to fall, decay and nourish next year's growth. I actually prefer all of the soft greens and reds of the flush of growth in the spring. But that's me, hope springs eternal

[Janet Baraclough]

The message from Charlie contains these words:

Why do all the work that worms will do for free? I keep topping up a deep layer of soft mulch material on the soil surface (grass clippings, leaves, wood ash, seaweed, herbage such as comfrey, nettles, bracken, home made compost), which attracts a huge breeding population of worms to feed on the decaying material.. The worms make soil tunnels (which let in air and water and nutrients), and excrete perfect fertiliser all through the soil. Birds looking for the worms, constantly scratch and turn over the mulch, breaking it down even faster and gobbling up all sorts of slugs and bugs they find.

The superiority of the natural, undisturbed soil structure this creates, is demonstrated by the amazing growth rate of plants (without any chemical fertilisers at all).

Janet

[Janet Baraclough]

The message

from William Wagner contains these words:

Do you mean Mykonos Greece? Greece and its islands have probably the widest variety of native flora in Europe; but only visible for a short season. People travel there in spring to see the fantastic natural carpets of brilliantly coloured bulbs and annual wildflowers that erupt from stony ground after the winter wet; it looks just like some medieval painting of Paradise with cyclamen, poppies, cistus, daisies, crocus, scillas. Everything goes quickly to seed as summer arrives then all the foliage burns off and disappears again.

Just a tiny glimpse of it here

Janet..

[Cheryl Isaak]

I like to think of fall as the start of the year - always have. I love the harvest and feeling of settling in for the long haul. Spring and summer always go to quick.

Cheryl

[AlanG]

I've been reading this thread with great interest, in particular the part about alfalfa meal for the compost pile (embarrassed to say I've never heard of this one, and I was a nursery manager/buyer for 12 years in D.C.)

Question: are those of you who don't dig the soil or add materials referring solely to edible plants/annuals/very tough perennials? Wouldn't you dig the soil well and add organic matter for shrubs, trees, and perennials, especially those which require excellent drainage?

[William Wagner]

I guess our images were after the short season. All I saw was white sand.

Bill

[William Wagner]

Require excellent drainage is not something we speak of about here in sandy loam country. I guess if you want excellent drainage or acidic soil you must apply sand and acid creating amenities. I use oak leaves which are about big time. Seems you may want to plant something that would not live there unless you apply help or energy. Your additions are added expense but going cheap has it virtues.

Bill whose brother is a nursery manager too for about 30 years. We differ on plant life philosophy. I favor my Dad and that English guy long gone.

Any way here is a video.

[Janet Baraclough]

The message from "AlanG" contains these words:

No, I plant shrubs and trees meanly too. Experience has taught me they do better that way.

Wouldn't

I grew trees for 20 years, and have planted out (by hand) literally thousands in reforesting schemes. In my own garden, I tried the big hole/compost and peat way, and found they don't do so well. They do far better if you plant them as small as possible, in a hole as small as possible (even, just a spade T slit for small bare-root trees), and do NOT add any organic matter to the planting hole whatever. That encourages the roots to stay crammed together in the unnaturally rich confines of the planting hole. Trees establish, grow and thrive best when their roots are hungry, so quickly strike out far and wide into undisturbed soil, in their search for food.

So far as sharp drainage requirements go; organic matter holds more water, like a sponge. So putting a bucketful of peat or OM in a tree planting hole, means that soil touching the roots will stay wetter. If you want to create sharp drainage in a naturally damp soil you'd do better to incorporate stones and pea gravel instead.

Janet.

[Charlie]

Eeyore, the old grey Donkey, stood by the side of the stream, and looked at himself in the water.

"Pathetic," he said. "That's what it is. Pathetic."

He turned and walked slowly down the stream for twenty yards, splashed across it, and walked slowly back on the other side. Then he looked at himself in the water again.

"As I thought," he said. "No better from this side. But nobody minds. Nobody cares. Pathetic, that's what it is."

sigh.....Eeyore here. ;-)

[Charlie]

I've been thinking about what you said, while cleaning up the garden and beginning to prepare it for next spring. It required a bit of effort to accomplish the mental change, but it does give me a new perspective upon the circle of seasons....perhaps that of metamorphosis or the time spent in the womb, beginning in the fall and then the birth in the spring.

Thanks for the mental exercise and mindshift.

Charlie