Katrina

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Whenever there is a natural disaster, the tsunami in the Indian Ocean for example, the world community expects the United States to help.
When a natural disaster hits the USA, the world community is silent.
where are they when the coastal United States needs them now? This disaster will affect not only the country's economy, but probably the world's.........ah well, life goes on, does it not? And the hurricane season is only half over.......
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Hi Marilyn, we were asking this same question in another group

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I just wonder what it's going to take to wake people up to the inevitability of gas rationing, and astronomical prices of food, products, etc. I mean, do they realize that despite we're still in the end days of summer, we're approaching fall, and there are a lot of people who heat their homes with oil? (I have a heat pump that works off of electricity, and for back up during power outs, a simple fireplace in one room with an electric blower which of course won't work during a power outage, but at least I can open the doors <g>) and that oil will be so highly priced they'll have to decide wheather to be cold or buy high priced food?
sigh.................we ain't seen nothing yet on how this hurricane has affected the country.................................(I was horrified yesterday by them showing the main pipeline that runs from New Orleans up thru to New York that has a major break in it....... I mean, wanna just send flyers out to potential terrorists for strike targets?? Geeze! and no, I don't normally worry about stuff like that, I mean, I live less than 60 miles from Oak Ridge for crying out loud, I won't have time to do more than put my head between my knees and kiss my arse goodbye if something were to happen over there............
Howze yer gardening going, lady? haven't heard from you in awhile. I've been laying low, myself letting the weedy grasses overtake the pathways, and enjoying the multitude of flowers that persist despite my lack of involvement. Depression and disaster are interesting bedmates. I've been struggling all summer. But at least I'm safe. I feel badly for the people down in the gulf. And if it weren't for the fact that I am the transportation for my son's job responsibilities, I'd pack up and go down there and do what I could to help. I'd feel much better doing that, believe me.
thanks for hollering back. maddie
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It's horrifying

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and we ain't seen nothing yet on the effects this is gonna have I realize,son works at Lowes at night stocking his store he used to work days in plumbing......he doesn't have a CLUE what is about to unfold in regards to products, deliveries, availabilities, etc................life is about to change in ways people haven't seen since Depression days. good thing I'm a pack rat when it comes to food supplies.........which reminds me, I need to hit Wally world for arse wipe and liquid soap while I can and while gas is ONLY $2.69 a gallon...........sigh................... maddie

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madgardener wrote: which reminds me, I need to

Gas hit the $3.00 mark here this morning in Cleveland Ohio.
Jean
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well I spoke too soon...............I drove to town (six miles) and gas has hit $3.29 for regular.....that's a jump of .$.70 per gallon and yesterday morning we topped off the tank while it was still $2.43............

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Today gas here is up to 1.39 a litre.Yesterday it was 1.21 and the day before that it was 1.12 a litre. 3.00 a gallon sounds good right about now. !

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It's hard to compare gasoline price from one county to the next. People here in the USA often proudly point to our low gas prices. They say "If you don't like paying $2.65/gal go to Europe where they pay $6/gal. The problem with this is that the people in Europe or the UK who pay big gas prices also have national health care that is paid for by the high gas tax. Oil is a commodity that is sold for the same price, more or less, to all takers. We don't have cheap gas in the US because we are "blessed" or because we are crafty deal makers. We have cheap gas because there are lower taxes and fewer services. Other people have expensive gas AND health care. I'm not sure we have the better deal. Two dollar a gallon gas won't do much for you if you have no health care and you experience a major health crisis or you have a chronic disease.
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Oops! Here's an address to find your better gas prices. http://www.gasbuddy.com /
BetsyB

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there's a problem Betsy........the prices have already hit $3.29. I use regular since there's no way I can afford the "premium" gasoline at $3.59 per gallon. At Exxon stations, the premium gas is almost $4! I saw the local Exxon showing prices for premium as $3.89. My best bet would have actually been to have followed my instincts (too late now) and top off the tank, again, and saved myself almost $4 for the total savings.
And that doesn't mean that $3.29 is the lowest price it will stop at before the oil reserves are processed. That might take a little bit. Enough time to clean me out of anything I have to go towards gasoline. At least my son gets paid Friday, but that's every two weeks. So we have to figure that yesterday's half tank of gasoline which cost $24.30 will today cost us $32.90. That's $8.60 difference. Now factor in that unless I jump on the $3.29 now, and wait until tomorrow morning, the price might actually be HIGHER. And gas buddy's website is showing prices relevent to Monday's prices when it was still a DOLLAR cheaper than it is three days later................................... I don't know where you are, but where I am, I'm feeling screwed and it ain't even getting started. Here's the insult. I knew prices were going to go up. I even anticipated higher everything prices eventually because of the cost of transporting. But what I didn't expect was when I decided not to run the very necessairy errand this afternoon after seeing the huge price increase, I stopped at the local grocery store and they had ALREADY RAISED PRICES ON STORE ITEMS..............yesterday I could have gotten the meager items for much less. So gouging is already in progress before the set cost of all this has become evident. I see a long season and winter ahead of me with lots of rice and beans and cornbread...............
(you might think this is being extreme, let me give you the example: yesterday, a good medium sized bottle of orange Dawn liquid detergent would have cost me $1.89 with my Food City discount card. Today, that same bottle was priced at $2.99. Now I know that bottle was there yesterday. It wasn't brought in today by the truck. I went to get a couple of microwave dinners for supper. Monday I could have gotten them for 2@$5. today those same dinners were 2@$6 so you see, it hasn't even begun and the stores are already taking advantage.
Now add insult to injury. My son's friend and his mother and aunt's headed to Houston Sunday in the path of the hurricane. They checked into the hotel and paid $52.95 + tax for their rooms each. Yesterday, Antonio told my son that they were notified by the management that their room rates were higher. They figured since they were approaching Labor Day weekend, and went down to pay for a week in advance until they could find a condo to rent. They were informed that the room rates were now $134.95 per night, and this was no Marriott either. It was a nice average hotel on the outskirts of Houston. He and his mother and aunt's are now frantically searching for a condominium to rent to save money that the hotel is gouging them for now.....................
'nuff said. And I figure there will be more attrocities in the upcoming days and weeks and months. I won't bore anyone with updates on it. I've said enough. madgardener

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The stores are reflecting what they are being charged for delivery by truck, for all our food and household products. I am thinking we might be heading into a depression. I was born durning the last one. NJ is jacking gas prices by 50 cents in the next couple days. We are retired and don't really need to go anywhere we don't choose. We are fortunate in that way.

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Please don't think that way - that gas prices will cause a depression.
We might be in for a rough time over the next few weeks, but preliminary indications are that the energy/gasoline problems coming from Katrina will be temporary. The issue is not really the oil supply, but distribution, and to a lesser extent, refinery capacity.
Regarding distribution, the broken pipelines in LA are being repaired as we speak. Although port and rail out of NO harbor will take longer to restore, they will be a priority. And the EPA has temporarily waived all of the special fuel blend requirements for different parts of the country, so that distributors can get gas from the places that have it to the places that need it.
Regarding refining capacity, all of LA only has 8% of the nation's refinery capacity - even if LA's refineries were out of commission for an extended period (which they won't be), we could manage to conserve 8% of our gasoline without too much hardship. Higher prices for gasoline hurt people's wallets, and I know that they will be a hardship for some. However, they also will encourage people to conserve - by planning ahead, limiting unneccessary trips, etc.
Unfortunately, panic about gas supplies has exactly the opposite effect: people go stock up on gas, including filling upevery container they can find and hoarding gas. This causes an artificial shortage, which causes more panic, which causes more people to hoard what they can find, and perpetuates a vicious cycle. If we could get people to calm down and just take some reasonable steps to conserve gas, we'd be fine. But given human nature, I fear at least some areas will end up rationing gas over the next few weeks. I really hope I'm wrong.
What's criminal is that the nation has not added any refinery capacity since the 1970s. Don't you think we use just a *little* more gas now than we did 30 years ago? If we had some headroom in our petroleum refining and distribution system, we wouldn't be in such a fix now.
My two cents' worth, Laura

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Oh, stop being so rational! We all know that gas prices NEVER EVER fall to previous price levels once a supply interruption or shortage is over. We will see prices that were already too high at $2.65/gal go to $4.10/gal. When everything is back online, prices will drop to $3.37/gal. and the talking heads will rejoice and declare victory.
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We have already started changing our habits. I don't leave home unless I know where and why I am going. But, even if you stay home this is going to get you. A cold winter has been predicted and all energy prices are going to rise due to disruption in supply or distribution along with a strong demand from developing countries like China. Everything has an energy component in the price, both for production and transportation. Insurance prices are likely to rise, also. I think that we were in bad spot already with a jobless recovery. Wages are slipping and poverty is growing. With most people only a couple of paychecks from disaster, I think you may be right about the depression. It's breathtaking to think that we have gone from a surplus to a financial disaster in about 5 years.
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Vox Humana wrote:

The disaster relief is a disaster and who will get the blame, the Bush led federal government. It will be disaster for the Republicans next election cycle. Yippee.
--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8
  Click to see the full signature.
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I fear your logical explanation will be invalidated by irrational voters. Remember, the people who are dead and in peril in Louisiana rushed to polls a few months ago to vote for an amendment to prohibit same-sex marriage, and while they were there they voted Republican. They voted for 4 more years of an administration that cut funding for flood control, including levee constriction, for New Orleans. For some reason, people fear gays so much that they will endanger themselves and knowingly vote against their own best interest. As long as Republican can appeal to the dark side of our population, they will prevail. Last year it was abortion, this year it is gays, next year it will be something else. Never underestimate the power of hate.
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The biggest threat to gas pipe lines, which run across every state and through almost every major town are inattentive backhoe operators. About a year ago contractors for the alameda county water district hit the gasoline pipeline with a backhoe, it ended up sending flames a hundred feet into the air. Fortunately damage to the pipeline is rarely fatal to anyone except the backhoe operator and the nearby crew.
The pipelines are clearly marked, and if you call the power company, they'll even tell you where the natural gas and electric pipelines are. I bet the public utilities commission has maps of where the gasoline pipelines are. Their location is not exactly a secret.
At the most, attacking a gas pipeline would cause a spike in gas prices, but so does a worm fart, otherwise big whoop.
-S
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On the first day of Economics 101 you learn about the trade-off between "guns and butter." Someone must have skipped that class.
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