quoted text -
The system I referred to sat right on the edge of the stream. The stream was a 'gentle one'. The input pipe ran a distance up the stream so I guess you could say 'dropping into the ram'. Yes, there has to be an elevation difference but there is no "dropping into the ram' in any sense the normal person would use.
You could look it up on the 'net.
Harry K
Ah, ya got 'em runnin' now ;O)
Sorry Harry K but I'm tagging onto a response from Billy. (Thanks Billy for responding as otherwise I wouldn't have seen this) I have not ever seen any post from you Harry on this subject but your comment suggests that you have written something on this before. I have seen no other post from you other than this reply from Billy.
As I mentioned earlier, a stream can indeed be used to operate a ram. And indeed it can be used in just the way you describe. But as I also wrote there MUST be a drop. That drop does not have to be like a mini waterfall immediatley above the ram. It can as you mention come from a considerable distance upstream (usually by pipe) to allow for the drop into the ram. Any 'normal person' with half a brain cell should be able to figure out that water flowing to a ram downstream from an intake pipe forms a 'drop'. And a 'drop' there must be (at least there must be a drop unless they have inveneted something new that no longer operate using water hammer principles)
Aha. The post I was replying to read like you were saying there had to be something like a mini waterfall.
I dunno why you can't see my post. Perhaps you have me kill filed?
Harry K
And if you were an honorable man, you would give a citation to make your point, instead of saying, "Go look it up." As it stands, it appears that your pulling your information out of your back side.
Please describe the stream (or whatever) you have available.
I never said any such thing!!!! But in an odd way, you have hit the nail on the head as to why the bridge could never have been used for a hydraulic ram (more below).
A 'head' of water can be provided by a pipe bring the water some distance as we've both already agreed. It CAN also be provided by a waterfall or even a header tank (not that I mentioned any means of how the drop was achieved to the ram despite what you erroneously thought).
But to go back to that bridge which is high above an irrigation channel. As you probably know, irrigation channels are a body of slow moving water and they are on very gently slope. Just how far upstream do you think the inlet pipe would need to be to provide a head for a hydraulic ram situated that high above the water on that particular bridge? That bridge never held any ram because as we both know, there needs to be that 'drop'. How many miles would a pipe have been run back up that irrigation channel to allow a drop to run a ram sitting up on that bridge?
I don't know if I have you kfed or not. I tend to killfile habitual drongos or loonies. Sometimes posts just go missing. It seems to be happening more as time goes on and ISPs are getting funny about usenet.
Thanks again for responding Billy as I just can't see his posts. But I did know what he meant about the inlet pipe without having to do a google. Effectively he'd described how to obtain that drop into the ram so I knew what he was referring to.
Harry thinks a 'normal person' wouldn't see that as a drop, but I know that you'd know my background well enough to know that I'm quite normal in the rural Australian sense but probably not in an urban or American sense. Having seen so many silly questions online such as can someone drink rainwater, or drink water collected off a roof or (grasp!!) even use it on vegetables, I'm always stunned at such lack of awareness of water and it's provision to house, animals and garden.
,
Referring to the photo, I disagree with "high above".
Also, the previous exchange in context was:
John Gilmer wrote: "I suspect that the "bridge" served to hold a "hydralic ram" which uses the velocity of the water to pump a small portion of the water to the level of the surrounding fields."
Farm1 replied: "Nope. Hydraulic rams need a head of water above the pump so that the water drops into the ram. - its the action of the water falling into the ram that makes the pumping happen."
Part of the reason I interpreted your "drops" and "falling" literally was that you were explicitly disagreeing ("Nope") with what John G wrote.
Obviously, there has to be some kind of "drop" or the stream wouldn't flow and it would only be a long, narrow, stagnant pond.
But if it has any kind of flow it's possible to run a pipe upstream and, if necessary, construct a small "dam" to concentrate the flow into your ram inlet. The ""dam" would only have to be, say, 6" high!
What matters to the ram isn't necessarily the "head" (which may only be a few inches) but the amount of the flow, and the diameter and length of the inlet pipe.
That's the "MAGIC" of the hydralic ram: it can derive some useful work (namely pumping water "uphill" from 6' to 20') from a so-so stream that most folks would consider useless for power generation purposes.
Obviously, the greater the "head" at the inlet pipe entrance, the easier it is to get a significant flow going and the large the hydralic ram can be and the more water you can pump.
I have only seen ONE hydralic ram in actual use. It was in Western NC. I was visiting the family home of a then girlfriend and her dad was interested in them. He took me to the home of someone he knew and he showed off his pump. The "stream" was small but seemed to have a good flow. I don't remember how long the inlet pipe was. Anyway, the pump kept operating 24/7 and keep a water tank above the level of the house filled. IOW: this guy had running water without using any electric power. The total lift was on the order of 15' to 20' from the stream bed.
BTW: my girl friend's fanukt house was about half way up what they called a "mountain." They got their water from a spring located some 100' up the slope and some 20' higher in elevation. Thus, they too had running water without needing any kind of pump. In the winter, to keep it from freezing they simply let the water run 24/7.
Well you may disagree but it'd be at least 4 ft to the top of a hydraulic ram situated on that bridge.
Am I now missing posts from you too? I haven't seen anything from you about how you were interpreting what I wrote, but if you'd asked I'd have told you that "Nope" was in reference to the structure being used to hold a ram.
Yes, obviously.
Yes, but we're revisiting old ground now. If you have another look at the pics again and think about how far back you'd need to run a pipe to even get a 6 inch head above a ram if it was perched on the top of the bridge. The situation Harry mentioned of the ram on the side of the stream might be possible at a pinch, but I still can't see it as being possible for sitting on the structure in that sort of irrigation channel.
sounds like you are changing your story again.
It might be established by you that it's one of those canals on Jupiter.
It might also have 'held' a flying saucer in the ditch.
Your comments sound like you're a whiner.
Sounds like you still have no idea about hydraulic rams.
,
More pix (full-sized) of the bridge as promised, including close-ups of the bolts/rivets for age estimation. Shot of item lying on the ground was the best I could get.
Have I mentioned there's a power substation on the opposite side of this farm, in the northeast corner? Coincidence?
Brought my cousin along. Lived on a farm in the early 1970s. She says an older tractor might fit across the bridge but not a new one and NEVER a combine. Meanwhile, the current owner of my great grandma's farm says it was indeed used for drainage and, if I understood him correctly, irrigation. Farmer to the west has/had light sandy soil and LOTS of water (from wells) AND an irrigation system. He needed to drain off the excess water. Farmer to the east agreed to allow the water to drain into the ditch which he could then use to irrigate his own land. In return, he received permission to use the adjacent, parallel (to the ditch) access road for hunting. Does that all fit/make sense? Still not sure when it all actually happened...
RW
Except ... it's the bridge you refer to as being "... high above an irrigation channel." It's unknown whether the hypothetical ram was situated on the bridge or suspended from it.
My participation in the thread had been about the OP's and other bridges, not pumps/hydraulic rams. So, you didn't miss any (previous) post of mine in which I commented on hydraulic rams.
Now, I am confused. Are you saying you meant the "Nope" to refer to the bridge?
From looking at those new pics, I'm confused to what it's original purpose was. It's a bridge but not very wide and built to hold substantial weight. Over built even. It's original intention was probably not to hold any kind of pump, etc. It almost looks like a bridge for a narrow gauge train. Something heavy. Guessing the lift, etc were added after the fact for some reason. Just my thoughts.
Thanks for the follow-up.
The rivets are consistent with it being a pony truss bridge ... early
1900s.The electrical boxes (3976) belong to the Agralite Electric Coop
Wait till they find out what's on the meat in the market ;O)
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