Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative

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snipped-for-privacy@wi.rr.com wrote:

You mean 2 H2O + 2 NADP+ + 2 ADP + 2 Pi + light --> 2 NADPH + 2 H+ + 2 ATP + O2 ? That is a mess of wet chemistry, you have in mind guy/girl. Another way would be, by definition an acid releases H2 when it comes in contact with a metal (yeah, there are a few exotics, but hyronium donors do) but then there is the problem of all that acid sloshing around in the vehicle. Seems to me, photovoltaic and a battery would be more practical. Even more practical would be the electric plug in vehicle. For the real hard core, we could go back to the Stanely Steamers. Then Frag could just dry out some pasture pastries, toss 'em in the burner, and sail off down the road. No fossil fuel. Might smell a little funky though.
I think I have a recent article around here, some where, on H2 storage. Lemme git back to ya.
- Billy Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

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electrical plugs just put off the problem. somebody somewhere gotta burn something to make the electricity. if they are making hydrogen from water, fine, if it is nuclear less than ideal.
platinum is typically used to catalyze the splitting of water, used with an electrical current in an ionic but not necessarily acidic environment. Ingrid
wrote: Even more practical would be the electric plug in vehicle.
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snipped-for-privacy@wi.rr.com wrote:

True, but then you can use bio-mass and your not burning fossil fuel. Additionally, you have the option of scrubbing the smoke stack to sequester the CO2 and reduce the over all amount in the atmosphere.

About as far as you can get from ideal, IMHO. In 30 - 40 years, fusion reactors should be viable with lots of safe, clean energy. Why mess up the planet for a 40 year fix, when it creates more problems than it solves?

The April '07 issue of Scientific American addresses the issue of hydrogen storage. The choices are (1) compressed hyrdogen, (2) liquid hydrogen (Ever see the demonstration where they dip a rose into liquid helium? Same kinda deal) (3) reversible "hydrogen metal hydrides" (they generate H+ in response to heat and a catalyst and, they need to be removed to recharge) and (4) "hydrogen adsorbents" that work like sponges (don't need to be removed to recharge but research just beginning).
Unfortunately, the full article isn't available on line without a subscription but you could find it at the library and, the graphics are very helpful in helping understand the problems involved.

- Billy Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

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Hmmm .... My 2 cents.
My thinking goes likes this.
I like my modern technological life. I like my computers, cars, lights, HBO and modern medical techniques. I refuse to live in a cave. Street maybe, if I keep spending the way I am :) Solar and wind energy together is too expensive for the small amount of electricity one receives. In order to get large amounts of energy one has to destroy something to get it: be it coal, nuclear, Fusion is just a dream a false hope, wood or any other agricultural source. If one (ok the world) uses agricultural sources, bread will be twenty dollars a loaf, greater starvation among the populated world.
Coal, CO2 scrubbers still leaves toxic waste in our land fills. Hydrogen, needs electricity to extract from water. Bio-mass - Agicultural, kiss all forest good-by, not just the rain forest.
If .... If and only if they can make them safe and put its waste in outer space, are the breeder nuclear reactors. "The old saying - Is anything safe? NO".
The only way to have a clean, healthy earth for everyone on this planet, IS POPULATION REDUCTION. ie: make bombs not babies (ok, ok, forget the reverse pun of the sixty's vietnam) just stop breeding like humans.
However, not sure of the future. My next truck will have an E85 engine. I have read some where that all one has to do is combine 85 gallons of ethanal with 15 gallons of regular gas. Buy a still, I have the 10 acres of land to raise corn and have 6 acres of woods (energy source for the still).
Its all about me, let the world starve. Conservation is a lost cause without population reduction. I am single with no kids. With no social life one has the time to do the things listed above.
So I agree with the original poster: Home Gardening "is" Becoming Even More Imperative.
Enjoy Life ......... Dan.
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Email "dan lehr at comcast dot net". Text only or goes to trash automatically.

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Uh, nice string of pronouncements Dan. Usually it is nice if you can give them a little authority, names, places, logic based on an acceptable premise. You know, something like that would have been nice, instead of coming down the mountain with your clay tablets. (Yeah, I know, sarcastic, people have told me that.

Keep your technology but Americans presently use 25% of the worlds energy. That will change. We can look forward to a diminished way of life. Sorry Dave. (Jeeze, I sound like Hal, the computer) The alternative is to send out the troops with bayonets fixed and subjugate the world. Since we are not alone in the nuclear club, some of those suckers may not want to go down easily. How do you feel about trying to swim in the non-radioactive end of the pool?

Presently, wind, photovoltaic, and hydro power (including tides) is too little and more expensive than fossil fuel (if you don't count the social impact of global warming i.e. our extinction). Someone must have forgotten to tell the international consortium that is constructing a fusion reactor in France that Dave said it couldn't be done. Scrubbing smoke stacks with water and calcium hydroxide Ca(OH)2 gives you calcium carbonate and water. Chalk, Dave, chalk doesn't sound so polluting, does it?
We are already over producing food (look at you waistline) and demographics say that the population of the planet should drop to replacement levels by 2050. Western Europe has been encouraging it's citizens to have more babies because the indigenous populations are declining. Pretty much the same deal for all industrialized nations.

There is even a new nut being introduced into Africa as a crop that grows well on dry marginally useful agricultural land that is 40% oil. We can keep our forests. Need to plant more actually. Maybe you will have to do without quite so much beef. That's all.

Great way to live, with the sword of Damocles hanging over our heads. Thanks, but no. Fission can be buffed, tweaked, and polished but it is just too freaking dangerous. That argument aside, how are you going to transfer the energy down, by microwaves and fry migratory birds?

See above. Large families only make sense in in subsistence farming.

You haven't been reading this new group long, have you? Corn is grown with natural gas and petroleum. It is not efficient unless you are an oil company but not for consumers.

A Cassandra in the wilderness, wandering in a hopeless quest, fade to black, the lights come up and everybody stands and goes home. Quite a martyr syndrome you have there Dave.
You really need to lighten up there Dave. Ya know. Girls really like guys that can make them laugh.

I will. Thanks Dave. You really should read a book about this stuff some day. Life is a tight rope, but it's doable.

- Billy Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
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I vote we try for geothermal. Why can't we harvest volcanos? :-)
Hydroelectric building dams is not a bad idea either, but there goes the environmental impact again...
Let's outlaw incandescent lightbulbs while we are at it!
--
Peace, Om

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That was punny. :-)
And I agree that overpopulation is a serious problem, but China's answer was not the one.
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Peace, Om

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On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:57:49 -0400, "Dan L."
[...]

[...]
Whoa, podner. Why drag the rain forest into this discussion. It has enough problems already!
Industrial hemp might be the answer.
My credentials: Your correspondent hasn't smoked a joint since the 60's-that-were-really-the-70's. I have no illusions that growing hemp would turn everybody on; in fact what you'd have to go through to get high on industrial hemp doesn't bear examining <g>.
Doesn't it seem a teeny bit self-serving of candidates and the un-informed media to keep plugging corn-as-fuel with all the downsides repeatedly enumerated even in the pop media,*
I'm not just talking about relatively low mileage; what about jacking up the price for cultures whose basic food comes from corn.
* (not the most serious of which is that I can't find corn oil which I've used for cooking since forever...)
This non-examination of industrial hemp as a source for automotive fuel is 1000% based on the enthusiastic propaganda of Big Oil, pandering to Bush's religious-nut "base", as well as to the general ignorance of Joe/Jane Beercan, who don't differentiate between marijuana and its industrial big sister, which has been used since pre-Biblical times for everything from cloth to oil. It grows on any kind of ground; requires almost no attention; is self-renewing.; doesn't drive up the price of a basic food like corn by diverting part of the crop to the Quixotic search for alternative fuel.
Read up on this. There are many titles out there on the subject (full disclosure: one of which I edited) which paint a dismaying picture of how Big Oil/Auto and Puritanical racists many decades ago managed to push through legislation confabulating industrial hemp with marijuana.
Persephone
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Persephone expounded:

Doesn't sound like there's much money it it - therein lies the rub.
We can't have that, now, ya hear? ;->
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
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Well put.
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Peace, Om

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wrote:

Not many people know that Industrial Hemp is NOT the same thing as recreational pot. Nowhere near. Anyone that has bothered to do the research would know that.
It has a million and one uses. 1 acre of IH supposedly creates the same amount of usable cellulose as 10 acres of forest. It is good for fabric, paper, fuel and oil, as well as a food source from the seeds.
You can thank Dupont for being one of the major players in getting it outlawed.
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I remember seeing a TV program that discussed living treasures of Japan. One woman was revered for her Hemp cloth. Seems not only durable and comfortable but was beautiful without dyes.
Bill
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S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade
http://www.ocutech.com/ High tech Vison aid
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In article < snipped-for-privacy@sn-indi.vsrv-sjc.supernews .net>,

Forgot to mention another neglected valuable plant. Bamboo.
A neat book!
http://preview.tinyurl.com/ynljd5
Bill
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http://www.ocutech.com/ High tech Vison aid
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In article < snipped-for-privacy@sn-indi.vsrv-sjc.supernews .net>,

Nice. ;-)
Have you read any of Stamets books on Edible mushroom cultivation? Oyster mushrooms seem to be one of the easiest and most versatile:
<http://www2.mailordercentral.com/fungi/Prodinfo.ASP?NUMBER=MGGM&VARIATIO N=&AITEM=1&MITEM=1>
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Peace, Om

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No I haven't but Thanks to you I'll check it out.
Currently our local brown caps are beginning to appear after a warm rain. I'm located in a wild mushroom oak forest with high ground water. Would be perfect for wandering about in but our local deer ticks are the worse I've ever seen. Most years a bit or two a season. I've had 8 in the last week with another 8 weeks to go. Nasty little guys. My dad two houses away started antibiotics for Lyme's a week ago.
Bill
--

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http://www.ocutech.com/ High tech Vison aid
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In article < snipped-for-privacy@sn-indi.vsrv-sjc.supernews .net>,

The man is a genius. :-) And that site also sells some nice indoor and outdoor cultivation kits (and wood plugs) for affordable prices. Best way in the world to get rid of stumps, and eat well while you are at it. <G>
And no, I have no association with that site. I'm just a real fan of his writings and philosophies.

Bummer. :-(
Does insect repellant spray work to keep tics off of you?
--
Peace, Om

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In article < snipped-for-privacy@sn-indi.vsrv-sjc.supernews .net>,

Indeed...
From what I have read, Dupont wanted to sell Nylon rope.
--
Peace, Om

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I hear that the sin of eating meat on Fridays is comparable to the sin of adultery. Having tried both, I can't see the comparison;-)
- Billy Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
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<snicker>
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Peace, Om

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On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 00:10:25 -0700, Persephone wrote:

Seems as if the Chinese understand this.
Charlie ---------------------------
Agencia Cubana de Noticias (AIN) http://ainch.ain.cu/mailman/listinfo/ingles
Food-Based Biofuel Program Banned in China
Havana, June 12 (acn) China has ruled out the production of ethanol from food crops, since that program will not be the path to meet the country's energy needs, said Xu Dingming, deputy director of the National Energy Group, on Monday.
China will not longer approve any project to produce fuel with food, said another official at the State Development and Reform Commission, reports Granma newspaper.
The current four enterprises engaged in producing corn-based ethanol will be asked to gradually switch to non-food raw materials.
The Oil and Food Corporation, based in Heilongjiang, is already taking steps to produce ethanol from cellulose by way of enzymes from Denmark that achieve that aim economically for large-scale operations.
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