Help with x-breeding experiment

[Mook23]

Hi folks, I've brought this topic up in this group before and people looked at me like I had two heads. However, I've made a little head way since I first appreared a few years ago and I'm looking for further input.

My long term project is to create a pepper/tomato hybrid that is spicy like a pepper but retains tomato properties. Now that you're done laughing, read on a little further.

I found a species of tomato that seems share some characteristics with the common garden bell pepper. The "Striped Cavern"

the bottom of the page) looks like a good tomato to start with. As I understand it, the gene that controls whether a pepper is "hot" or not is dominant and that polen from a hot pepper can render non-hot peppers hot if you grow from seed. So, here's the next step. I've got to introduce some polen from a suitable hot pepper to the Striped Cavern. Should I first concentrate on trying to get results from cross breeding the tomato with a regular bell pepper (the two species are MUCH closer than any other tomato/pepper combination would be) and then introduce some hot pepper pollen a few generations down the road? The idea is to get this species of tomato to produce some heat, then breed it with a more robust tomato to get a jucier inside.

How should I go about this. I've got a pretty good idea that it will eventually work out for me, but is simple cross pollination enough to achieve the desired results? Will this even result in fertile seeds, or will I get some kind of weird plant that I can only propigate through cuttings?

Any help is greatly appreciated, although please refrain from making fun of me. I got enough of that last time around.

[Chuckie]

I think you should try to get a cross between a pepper and tomato and then introduce the hot pepper pollen. I will not make fun of you but have thought of some names for this new species. Such as: "Chili Tomatos" or Pepmatos? Lets us know if it works. Chuckie

[Mook23]

I was thinking of taking that route. So should I just introduce the pepper pollen to the tomatos, or take more drastic action such as carefully snipping most of the staments from the tomato flowers as they open to ensure that the majority of the pollen is from the pepper flowers? I'm at a bit of a loss....

I think Chili Tomatos would be a good name, I'll keep that in mind.

[Cereus-validus.....]

If such an intergeneric cross were possible, it most certainly would have been done long ago in Pre-Columbian times.

Since there is no such thing, you figure out whether it is possible or not.

[Cereus-validus.....]

If such an intergeneric cross were possible, it most certainly would have been done long ago in Pre-Columbian times.

Since there is no such thing as a Capsicum X Lycopersicon hybrid, you figure out whether it is possible or not. Simply crossing the two plants won't work.

You would need to employ sophisticated gene splicing techniques that probably would NOT get FDA approval!!!!

[Mook23]

Well, seeing as how very few of the wild species that existed in pre-columbian times still exist, and that the fruit we currently enjoy as tomatos bear little resemblence to the orriginal wild species, I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand just yet. We shall see.

[Cereus-validus.....]

Go over the considerable literature that has been written on the breeding of New World Solanum, Lycopersicon and Capsicum as well as the taxonomic literature and recent DNA studies and you will find plenty of info on the interrelationship between the genera. It will save you time with your idle speculation once you enlighten yourself on what is already known. That is what you should see, you mook. I'm not dismissing anything. I'm saying you should be more realistic about the actual limitations. You are stepping into well trod ground here. Your idea is not a new one at all.

[Mook23]

Trust me, I'm trying to get my hands on anything I can find. From what I can tell, the orriginal "star fruit" that came over to the old world were much closer to pepper than they currently are. I've located a few species of heirloom plants that I feel sort of straddle the ground between the two species. If you have any specific references, I'd love to track them down. There is some speculation on whether or not the botany program at our local university will be continued or not, so I may not have contact with professors who could be of some help in this respect. I thought I'd start out with some preliminary experiments and see where they take me. I don't have access to a lab or any fancy equipment, but I'm still hopeful. I think it's mostly a matter of finding species which will produce fertile fruits.

[Leon Trollski]

I'm sure the ng's resident Snooty Jerk will respond dismissively to your ideas, but to be more diplomatic, these are separate genera, perhaps separate families for all I know. I'm no geneticist. But I don't think you can cross pollinate these plants.

You may have more luck with selective breeding of tomatoes themselves, to try isolating and reinforcing the spicy aspect you want by inbreeding. This could take your entire life or longer, no joke.

Don't bother responding, Cereus, you're killfiled and I'll never see your arrogant response.

If he does, please don't quote him. I don't want to see his patronizing lectures.

[Cereus-validus.....]

Don't mind Trollski, Mook, he's the village idiot around here. ...............

No Trollski, you meat head, you are not even close. If you had any brains, you'd be a retard and you full well know it. Your absolute ignorance of botany is most astounding. So, you should keep your dimwitted remarks to yourself and just stay lurking in the dark abusing yourself.

Lycopersicon and Capsicum most definitely are in the same plant family Solanaceae. Since the two genera have been agriculturally important since pre-Columbian times there is much information on them. It is best to go over the copious published literature before beating a dead horse. Or in your case, Trollski, beating yourself.

Being in different genera is not a barrier to hybridization in plants. See the Orchidaceae and Poaceae for example. I have successfully made many intergeneric crosses with succulent plants, so I know from personal experience that such a thing can be done. Since you have absolutely no experience with plants, Trollski, you wouldn't know that.

[Cereus-validus.....]

You should check with Agricola and other agricultural and botanical databases.

[Mook23]

Thank you VERY much. This is greatly needed shot in the arm.