)(*&*^&$%&^(& "heirloom" tomatoes

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On 07/22/2014 11:36 AM, Boron Elgar wrote:

Of course they would, especially if they wanted to get promotions and keep their jobs.
They have also been caught falsifying data: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/07/17/noaas-jan-jun-2010-warmest-ever-missing-data-false-impressions/
Seeing a trend here?
Here is an excellent paper on sea levels. (He mentions the falsification too.)
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/reprint/sea_level_not_rising.pdf
Of course, if this is your religious believe and you know it is correct in your bones, who cares if you cheat, you know you are right. And certainly, don't let the scientific method get in your way. Some of you guys are worse than the creationists.

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On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:36:41 -0400, Boron Elgar

Oh...here's one more:
http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/22/researchers-question-expansion-of-antarcticas-fringe-of-sea-ice/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
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On 07/22/2014 11:44 AM, Boron Elgar wrote:

Hi Boron,
http://www.intellicast.com/Community/Content.aspx?a 8 SUMMARY: Multidecadal Oscillations in the Pacific and the Atlantic are acknowledged to be the result of natural processes.
And the ice is coming back as predicted:
http://icecap.us/images/uploads/Sea_Ice_07vs08.jpg
All normal and expected.
> If you cannot provide standard accepted > scientific facts, then just STFU
Did I offend your religious beliefs?
Religion and science don't mix. It is up to you to prove to me what your theories are, not the other way around. That is the scientific method. Did I mention your side got caught cheating? Because YOU-AIN'T-GOT-SQUAT.
Also in science, you don't get offended when someone offers alternate viewpoints. It is all part of the process.
Would you like some of my moon cheese? You have to prove to me it does not exist. You denier you. I don't have to prove a thing to you.
-T
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On 07/22/2014 12:54 PM, Todd wrote:

Not good dates on those images. Try this one:
http://cdn.isciencetimes.com/data/images/full/2013/09/11/4999-global-cooling.jpg
NASA satellite images show August 2012 [left] and August 2013 [right]. (Photo: NASA)
Again, all normal and expected. All part of the "Multidecadal Oscillations". No need to scream the sky is falling and take away your freedom and lifestyle.
Here is an alternate scientific viewpoint on the rising sea levels that aren't: http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/Articles%202007/MornerInterview.pdf On page three he call the Global Warming crowd on falsifying the data. Hmmm. See a trend here?
If there was anything to this, the ideologues would not have to cheat or presort to religious extremist terms to sell their snake oil.
Now, my Moon Cheese, on the other hand, regardless of what the Deniers say was found in the moon rocks, is real. The science is already in. The cheese is locked up in the moon's core where you can't see or measure it. Give me you lifestyle and your freedom OR I WON'T SHARE WITH YOU.
-T
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Todd said:

Ice extent rebounded from the lowest recorded to "only" just under two standard deviations from 20th century averages. Total volume of ice, however, did not increase.
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2013/09/ <http://wottsupwiththatblog.wordpress.com/2013/09/09/arctic-sea-ice- recovery-wtf/>

You are pulling my leg, right?
Earthquakes: http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/news/2006/03_23_06.htm
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/313/5795/1958.short

You, sir, are the person who has invested in belief. The "caught cheating" accusation was and is full of holes and had its own agenda (to create FUD).
You completely ignore my introduction of other observations (phenology).

NASA wants my freedom? NOAA threatens my faith? A trivial portion of my tax money goes to them. You are arguing politics, not science.
As for politics, I have, over the last three decades, sadly come to the conclusion that the GOP is no longer Grand. That the labor unions were *not* obsolete, as I had once thought.
There actually is big money involved--on the climate change denial side:
<http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/dark-money-funds-climate- change-denial-effort/>
Oh, and a medical analysis of an actual paleo-man: http://news.sciencemag.org/health/2012/02/iceman-was-medical-mess
--
Pat in Plymouth MI

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On 07/23/2014 07:20 AM, Pat Kiewicz wrote:

No, you have just never hear this before.
Post-glacial rebound: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-glacial_rebound
"Post-glacial rebound (sometimes called continental rebound, glacial isostasy, glacial isostatic adjustment) is the rise of land masses that were depressed by the huge weight of ice sheets during the last glacial period, through a process known as isostasy. It affects northern Europe (especially Scotland, Estonia, Fennoscandia, and northern Denmark), Siberia, Canada, the Great Lakes of Canada and the United States, the coastal region of the US state of Maine, parts of Patagonia, and Antarctica."
Last of of these the midwest had, the Mississippi river flowed backwards and the liberty bell rang.
The amount of weight on Greenland to provide the volume of water to raise the sea levels would be so great that the earthquakes would be felt worldwide.
> There actually is big money involved--on the climate > change denial side:
No doubt. Remember, since you are a science nut, you have to prove it to me, not the other way around. And, since you are a "science nut", please stop using religious extremist terms ("denial") to describe "skeptics"
No Moon Cheese for you today!
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Pat Kiewicz wrote:

How would one know?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
David
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - A better world requires a daily struggle against those who would mislead us.
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David Hare-Scott said:

True.
There are actually people who think Landover Baptist Church is for real.
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/
I must really have a word with my tomato plants, as I've now harvested my first eggplants* but still no ripe tomatoes other than the SunSugar hybrids. Not even a hint of color!
*cubed, microwaved, then a dash of sesame-garlic sauce. *yum*
--
Pat in Plymouth MI

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Perhaps you missed Todd's post stating that ADHD treatments guarantee lifelong cocaine addictions.
I'm slowly moving my assessment from "misinformed zealot" toward "performance artist."
--
Drew Lawson | If dreams were thunder,
| and lightning was desire,
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On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:36:41 -0400, Boron Elgar
wrote:

That is exactly the issue, the AGW models cannot explain as well as the older standard model. Worse they predict don't worth a tinkers damn either. AGW is NOT science, it is religion. Show better quality predictions or STFU yourself.
?-))
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On Thu, 24 Jul 2014 23:06:34 -0700, josephkk

Really, if you want to argue with what 97% of the subject qualified scientists say, by all means, have fun out there swinging in the wind.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus.htm
When 2 people tell you you're drunk, go to bed.
Boron
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On 07/25/2014 06:17 AM, Boron Elgar wrote:

And the other 3% have been sent to mental health institutions. Sounds like a Soviet election.
And, that is not how science works. You don't get to vote on it.
By the way, good luck reproducing that 97% number. It was done fraudulently.
http://www.climatedepot.com/2014/05/26/wsj-the-myth-of-the-climate-change-97-what-is-the-origin-of-the-false-belief-that-almost-all-scientists-agree-about-global-warming/
This is not science, this is religion. In science, the very minute some fudges their data, you toss them out.
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On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 09:17:57 -0400, Boron Elgar
wrote:

You are drunk.
?-)
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Could I suggest that since you have both got down to name calling it is time for BOTH to quit.
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David

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Todd said:

wrote:

ever-missing-data-false-impressions

_not_rising.pdf
He works for a right-wing think tank with (ultimately) shady finances.
<http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Robert_Ferguson_ (Science_and_Public_Policy_Institute)>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_Public_Policy_Institute
Todd, the big money is with the petroleum industry and bankers, not the academics.
Also: http://www.factcheck.org/2009/12/climategate/
So what's the push-back on the evidence of phenology?
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Pat in Plymouth MI

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On 07/28/2014 06:53 AM, Pat Kiewicz wrote:

Hi Pat,
A personal attack. See a trend here too? Told who to hate, by chance?

AND BIG GOVERNMENT! The worst of them all.
Do a google search on "how is getting rich off of cap and trade" https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=how+is+getting+rich+off+of+cap+and+trade

My spell checker does like "phenology", but wikipedia does.
What is your point? The fraudsters used tree rings from "one" tree in Siberia. What does Phenology have to do with that? "Massaging your data" is corruption, not science. In science you don't go out and say this is fact, now disprove me. Okay, except for Moon Cheese. The earth goes through a 206 year solar cycle. Variations in climate are normal. We have nothing or very, very little to do with it. "Phenology" is very much affected by solar cycles.
Remember our atmosphere is ~1% water vapor and 0.039% carbon dioxide [1]. Water vapor is the "mother of all green house gases", at over 25 TIMES greater than CO2. But, can't regulate that or make money off it -- see the recommended Google search above.
You are being sold a bill of good. So, reach down, grab your ankles, and kiss your freedom goodbye! Don't think so? This from a recent UN sponsored conference on climate change [2]:
“The structural causes of climate change are linked to the current capitalist hegemonic system,” the final declaration said. “To combat climate change it is necessary to change the system.”
Funny thing, they also recommended dropping cap and trade and just plowing forward with tyranny.
And, from President Vaclav Klaus of the Czech Republic [3]:
...in the recent years we came to witness yet another major attack on freedom and free markets, an attack based on environmentalism and in particular its global warming variant. The explicitly stated intentions of global warming activists are frightening. They want to change us, to change the whole mankind, to change human behavior, to change the structure and functioning of society, to change the whole system of values which has been gradually established during centuries. These intentions are dangerous and their consequences far reaching. These people want to restrict our freedom. It is our duty to say NO.
Were you told to hate him too?
Oh yes, and here are some of your flags flying over the Copenhagen 12/09 Global Warming conference:
http://www.commieblaster.com/images/climategate/copenhagan-commies.jpg
Look familiar? Keep kissing your freedom goodbye.
No Moon cheese for you!
-T
1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Earth
2) http://www.rtcc.org/2014/07/22/venezuela-climate-summit-calls-for-end-to-green-economy/
3) http://www.au.agwscam.com/pdf/Global%20Warming%20Alarmism%20is%20Unacceptable%20and%20Should%20be%20Confronted.pdf
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I keep misreading this as "phrenology" -- which has as much to do with tomatoes as does the majority of this discussion.
(And I apologize for my part in it.)
--
Drew Lawson | What you own is your own kingdom
| What you do is your own glory
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wrote:

This is a decent refutation, too.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/feb/09/climategate-bogus-sceptics-lies?guni=Article:in%20body%20link
Boron
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On 07/28/2014 04:11 PM, Boron Elgar wrote:

Nice try. Didn't work. Too much fraud out there in the Global warming community. Notice how they run personal attacks on those that out them? Real science there for sure! This is not how science works. It is how ideology work though.
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