)(*&*^&$%&^(& "heirloom" tomatoes

[Todd]

Hi Higgs,

Every year I have tried to grow full sized tomatoes (Cherokee purple), it has been a bust. Last year was my most successful at 2 and 1/2 tomatoes.

This year the nursery guy told me to try his "box car" heirlooms. I like the guy, so I bought "one". So far it has lots of flowers.

I have 10 of Cherries (3 varieties) and they are covered with tons of green tomatoes. (I think they are mocking me.)

I have a black thumb and have not yet figured out why I am so jinxed with full sized tomatoes. Other do fine with them. So, 1) I feel your pain, and 2) please let us know if you ever figure it out.

-T

My wife loved cherry tomatoes and we both eat them like candy. Kind of what happens when the produce tastes good. Maybe you should try some cherries?

[songbird]

Todd wrote: ...

10 cherry tomato plants is going to be a huge crop for just a few people.

tomatoes take a while to mature on the plant. be patient. ours have fruit on them now that we won't harvest for another month at the earliest.

also, some are determinant and others are not. know the difference and what it means for your varieties.

songbird

[Higgs Boson]

Plants bore a few delicious tomatoes, then decided to take early retiremen t.

Yes, I plan to do just that. Our climate (well,everybody's!) is so screwed up due to global warming, that we just doesn't know how long the tomato gr owing season will last. So I'm going to throw some tried & true tom seeds into the ground and see what comes up.

HB

[Todd]

Hi Higgs,

"Global Warming" is junk science at its best. Politics at its worst. Not a single prediction has happened and they have been caught falsifying data. Sea level have not risen, yada, yada. The models are so bad they couldn't predict the sun rising in east.

Here is a much better science based, not politics, explanation of what is happening. Explains why the oceans have cooled for the last 11 years too.

Why Should We Be Concerned about the Next Cold Climate Era?

This new era called a 'solar hibernation' or 'grand minimum' is caused by a repeating 206 year cycle of the Sun. These hibernations are accompanied by historic reductions in the energy output of the Sun. SSRC research shows the next solar hibernation will bring a long period of cold just as it has done before every time this cycle 'turns over' from its global warming phase to its global cooling phase.

The 206 year cycle theory has got a lot of honest solid science behind it.

Since you say you like science and the Higgs Particle has preliminarily been located, awaiting reproduction by others, may you could change your moniker from "Higgs Boson" to "206". Just an idea.

According to the 206 year solar cycle theory, we have had a smooth ride for a lot of years. Humanity will thrive, as we always have.

If you want to have a good long term weather prediction, try the "Farmer's Almanac".

-T

[Higgs Boson]

ewed up due to global warming, that we just doesn't know how long the tomat o growing season will last. So I'm going to throw some tried & true tom se eds into the ground and see what comes up.

Er...this is rather embarrassing. In researching the organization you ment ion, I see that it is founded and run by a John L. Casey. There are many l inks, of which the most "interesting" are:

- Proxy - Highlight

John L. Casey has served his country, science, and high technology ... Case y has spelled out a compelling case that a new cold era has arrived.. ... i mparts Casey's in-depth analysis of how the recently started "solar (break s off).

Giborah: Worth a visit if only for glowing tribute to Michelle Bachmann.

and

/

I've emailed Space and Science to ascertain their source(s) of funding.

Stay tuned!

Uh, we're actually talking CLIMATE not WEATHER.

HB

>

[Todd]

I wish. I have a black thumb. I will probably only get

1/4 the yield that you do, if that. So, I am making up with quantity.

Was told the same thing about zucchini. "You will have so many, you will have to give them to your neighbors!" Not me! I think they were pulling my leg anyway.

If I remember correctly, last year I only got 3 off of each of five plants. This year I have planted about

13 zuks. That would be 39 fruit. Maybe.

Thank you for confirming. I always think I am doing something wrong and fret to much.

What is "determinant"?

Thank you for helping me with this.

-T

[David Hare-Scott]

You have serious problems. In reasonable conditions two or three plants would feed a family all the zuccs they could eat.

It is a genetic difference in cultivars. Determinant tomatoes grow only so many nodes and hence a limited number of fruit. The bush is (roughly) fixed in maximum size and the fruit tend to be ready at the same time.

Indeterminant will go on getting bigger and bigger and growing more and more nodes (and fruit) provided the conditions are suitable. The fruit are ready in succession as the nodes flower in succession. IIRC Disney world holds the record for the largest tomato "tree" that produced thousands of fruit - it would be an indetrminant cultivar.

The former are good if you want a more bushy habit and want the fruit all at once - say for canning. The latter are better if you want fruit right through the growing season.

D

[Todd]

No it is not. "Embarrasing" is being told what to think by others. There are tons and tons of folks doing solar cycle research.

Someone else you were told to hate, no doubt?

Fascinating. Seems like to Global Cooling folks took it on the nose too.

The earth will definitely cool again. Not so much to get hysterical over or to turn our freedom over to elitists totalitarianists, like you want to do with the Global Warming fraud.

Here is a search on the 206 year solar research:

No doubt, you will find those that want to run around screaming.

You were talking about a second planting, which was weather related. That was my comment about the Farmers Almanac.

You notice a trend here. Science to me is open for debate. I love the discovery part of science. Today's truths are always tomorrow's falsehoods. Science is not my politics and/or religion. With you, it definitely is your religion and your politics. That is why get so offended and start with the name calling when your gods get challenged and is also why you let others tell you what to think.

Since you are from the PRC, have you ever been to Fossil Falls? I was a pretty cool water fall when the last mini ice age melted. I have seen it several times and studied it in my college California geology class.

This tour sounds fun:

-T

[David Hare-Scott]

Please stop this

David

[Todd]

You think? Don't you know the definition of a small town is that when you go to visit your neighbors, you have to lock your car doors or you will find your back seat full of Zukes?

That or you are having a good chuckle at my expense,

If you have any idea what I am doing wrong, I am all ears!

This is the compost I use:

And, everyone else has really good luck with it. Then again, my soil is not soil. It is decomposed sand stone. (Like decomposed granite, only uglier.)

Last year I got the most cherries ever. And had worms for the first time in my little garden. So, I have high hopes.

Thank you for the excellent explanation!

Box car (1), Red Cherry (3), Black Cherry (3), Sweet

100 (4)

Everybody has tons of flowers. The cherries all have green tomatoes.

The two Tomatillo are going crazy with flowers. Got me two Chinese lantern too.

I now have a three inch Eggplant. Cute as hell. And I now have about 10 gorgeous iridescent violet flowers across the two plants. And yes, I know, you have seem prettier. I have not in my vegetable garden.

My Hollyhocks in the front yard are surreal they are so pretty. Too bad you can't pick them and put them in a vase. Classic five pedal dicot.

My zuke flowers look like they could bite you! You can almost heard them say "feed me Seymour!"

-T

[David Hare-Scott]

This is the problem with usenet, I can't get enough data to have a good idea. You can't tell me what I need to know and there are too many things to ask. I can't transfer experience electronically and typing is too cumbersome.

D

[Todd]

Rats! Thanks anyway for trying.

[Higgs Boson]

See, Todd, this is why your posts are so embarrassing -- to YOU. I never heard of the guy until I researched the organization you enthusiastically recommended. But -- frankly -- you come off more than a little paranoid assuming I was "told to hate" someone I never heard of.

Wow! I've been called a lot of names, but "elitist totalitarianists" (actually should be just "totalitarian") is a new one.

Over & out on this topic, Todd.

HB

[Todd]

Hi Higgs,

I actually wasn't calling you that -- you are a follower -- I was calling the fraudsters that who foisted this junk science on all the rest of us. Please pardon me if it came out otherwise.

And, yes we better end this topic or we may give David a heart attack. Sound fun, but David would be hard to replace. (I wonder if they well a cheaper model at Wal Mart?)

-T

[Drew Lawson]

Are you getting uncertainty in when the growing season will end?

In western Ohio, the main gardening related freakiness the last few years has been the onset of spring. My statistical last frost is mid-May, but the last couple years it would have been safe to plant most things in early April. You just can't tell whether the warm will suddenly go away. Two or three years ago (maybe 4?) we dropped to ~20F in May.

Fall temperatures don't yet seem to be as chaotic, though late summer rainfall is a coin toss.

[Pat Kiewicz]

Some important institutions are taking it seriously, including the US Defense Department.

"Climate change threatens national security This issue is about science, not politics, and the military is taking it very seriously, reports retired Rear Adm. DAVID W. TITLEY"

...who has a Ph.D in meteorology. *Read what the man says.* He *used to be* a doubter.

Not a meteorologist, but one of our better (and more entertaining) science communicators:

As regards heirloom tomatoes, they may be somewhat less reliable producers, but deliver a range of colors, textures, and flavors that you can not get with the more modern hybrids.

For guaranteed production for canning and drying, I grow the best modern hybrids. My cherry tomatoes are modern hybrids. (I dry a lot of tomatoes and dried cherry tomatoes are great for snacks in the off-season.)

But the bulk of my fresh-eating tomatoes are heirlooms.

[Higgs Boson]

1. Pat, nice try, but why waste electrons on hard-core deniers? They do not have a glimmer about interconnectedness of ocean currents, etc.
2. Possibly indiscreet q: What does your .sig mean? If private, je comprends.

1. I'm being tugged from all sides re: trying heirlooms again. Not the biggest decision I'll ever make -- but the small ones have always been the hardest! You should see me confronted with one of those BIG restaurant menus...

HB

[Todd]

Hi Pat,

None of their predictions are have come to pass. They have been caught cheating. Their "models" couldn't predict the sun rising in the east. They refuse to listen to alternative investigation. Some have even lost their jobs for their differing opinions. This isn't science. This is politics/religion.

Have you ever been in the military? Politics rule the roost. Don't think women pull their weight on deployment? Keep your mouth shut or you will be busted for it. Seriously.

My wife is a vet and you should hear the stories of the women goofing off on deployment. She was appreciated by all the guys as she actually jumped in with them and pitched camouflage and the rest, rather than run and hide. The only female that did such. She took her duty seriously. The others did not. Any one trying to get the rest of the females to do their duty would have been busted. It is not politically correct. You keep your mouth shut and tow the line.

Don't trust anything where your job depends on totting a political line. And Global Warming is a political agenda. NASA included on this one.

By the way "doubter" is a religious term. If the warming crowd had anything, they would not resort to religious axioms and political correctness.

Think of the Military or any other government study as an "industry funded" study. The results are often predetermined. Look at such with a gimlet eye.

The earth is not warming, sea level are not rising, and on and on and so forth. We need to get this out of the realm of politics/religion and back into the realm of science.

-T

By the way, taking women on deployment is like taking your wife camping. And, yes, were I still in the military, I would have been busted for that comment.

[David Hare-Scott]

You are incorribile

D

[Todd]

True enough