Global warming?

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djay Wrote:

It wouldn't be such a concern if the 'warming' (melting) isn't takin place in the short time frame. Actually the Industrial Revolution' emergence and the large melting coincide. Ask the two right win Senators from Alaska what they think of global warming. They have front row seat. To ask for more proof is not fair, as virtually al scientists agree on this one. Plus Google will turn up vast amounts o data to confirm
-- golddog
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Certain individuals believe (consciously or not) that to acknowledge global warming is equivalent to offending two institutions which they revere more than Catholics revere the pope: The oil and automobile industries. And, let's not forget that they'd also have to kick the jambs out from under our entire belief system, which says we have a god-given right to own any car we like, no matter how stupid it might be, and to hell with the consequences.
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<Persephone> wrote in message

Global warming is a political issue. It's been around ever since they talked about a new ice age coming back in the 70s. They changed that because of no interest and global warming replaced it. Kyoto was supposed to be the answer and now it's all but dead. The signees of the treaty have not reduced any of their emissions but they still blame the U.S. for it's failure even though everybody acjknowedges it wouldn't cure anything. The whole movement is seen by many to be a continuous money supply in order to keep all those "experts" from having to drive cabs for a living.
The warming may be somewhat real to some degree but it has been explained by many knowledgeable people as climate cycles (and there are many of them) and cycles within cycles. Sun output, orbital variations and other known factors have been cited but no one really knows how and why climate has changed natuarally over the eons. Climate change is always happening.
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed --and hence clamorous to be led to safety--by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." H.L. Mencken
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OK, but at the other extreme, discounting it completely is the mantra of idiots who want to drive an Escalade or a Hummer, and pretend they don't belch more fumes than more sensible vehicles.
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any
though
explained
That seems to be a point that a lot of people make for some reason but I doubt anyone driving an SUV pretends anything. I believe they just want to be in on the SUV fad while it lasts.
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You're mistaken. KYOTO is only the tip of the iceberg; it's acknowledged here as too little too late. FYI, the whole of Europe is committed to much tighter emission reductions than KYOTO. In Britain, we're working on three different reduction commitments ,international (Kyoto), European and UK, at every level of the community (from business to individual households). CO2 reduction , and moving to renewable , sustainable, non-polluting energy sources are already huge business here, and America risks being left very far behind.
Janet.
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Fumes are manly. Fixing the problem is wimpy. This is the attitude of the administration, and quite a few members of a generation that needs to die of old age as soon as possible.
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talked
no
answer
any of

Yes. I know Europe is much more rabid about it than we are. But from what I've read, no one has yet met their Kyoto targets. Though Kyoto has only been in actual effect for a year, it has been committed to for some time now. I would have thought they would be further along. It will be interesting to see how well they perform in coming years. I misspoke saying they haven't reduced emissions. They just haven't met their goal according to the timetable.
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Don't hold your breath waiting for perfection. Some of the provisions require improvements to coal-burning facilities, and it's so much easier and cheaper to simply purchase the public officials who can make the enforcement go away. That's what's happening here.
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That's unsurprising since the target date is still 4 years away. Latest assessments are that Britain and Sweden are on target to meet their Kyoto commitment by 2010 with Austria a close third.
Janet
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they
because of

the
reduced
what
As I understand it, there are target dates year by year and none have been met. Britain started out pretty well when they converted to natural gas but failed to meet their target. The ultimate outcome is in doubt. Ditto for Germany as the old belching plants were converted to more efficient methods.
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. Kyoto was supposed to be

Then you're misinformed. The Kyoto agreement happened 1997-99, 30 years AFTER Britain converted to natural gas. Our undersea gas fields are now declining. Next year we'll become a net importer of natural gas :-(, so that's another unsustainable, expensive, limited energy source which we need to reduce dependence on (like coal before it, and oil currently). Especially after what just happened in Georgia.
Janet
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Europe is

Britain,
,international
been
but
The conversion occurred in the early 90s. The targets are shooting for 1990 levels. The UK's legally binding Kyoto target is to reduce emissions of six greenhouse gases, of which CO2 is the main one, to 12.5 percent below 1990 levels by 2009-2012.
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Wrong again
Britain's conversion to natural gas began in 68 and was completed by 1977.
http://www.gasmuseum.co.uk/conversion.htm
Janet (Scotland, UK)
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fields
gas
1977.
We must be talking about two different things. Your link mentions switching from "town gas" to natural gas in homes. I have been talking about switching from coal fired electrical plants to gas powered electrical plants.
http://tinyurl.com/brdum
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James Wrote:

Does anyone else find this thread confusing with replies all over th place? Must be a better way
-- golddog
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No, I'm seeing i the full thread in perfect order with no confusion whatever. I use a free newsreader supplied by my isp, but there are countless other newsreaders to choose from.
>Must be a better way.
Yes, using a newsreader, the intended format to access this medium.
You are reading this through a website portal at www.gardenbanter You probably imagine this discussion is taking place on that website, but you are mistaken. The discussion is taking place in a different place on the internet, called usenet, in something called a newsgroup. You aren't even seeing all of it (because gardebanter doesnt collect all the posts) and you aren't seeing it properly threaded because gardenbanter is at fault..
You are in the same position as someone who stands on the street in the rain, looking through the window of a TV shop, watching the program on their sets. You can't even adjust what's on the screens, let alone hear all that's being said. But you really believe that gardenbanter, who generously let you stand on the pavement, is the TV producer who made the program you're watching through the shop window. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Janet.
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Doesn't your news reader show the messages in a hierarchal fashion?
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He's not using a newsreader, he's posting via a cheapskate commercial UK web portal for numpties. Half its members are still trying to work out if this is email or a chatroom.
Janet
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contains these words:

Sounds similar to AOL Syndrome. Incurable.
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