Gardengal

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Gardengal, my argument with you wasn't personal. It was with the facts. Lord knows I've been on the dirty end of the stick enough time but each time I learned from it (I think I have, anyway) and moved on. There are many posters here asking for help, especially at this time of the year, and your knowledge and experience can greatly benefit all of us. Speaking for myself, I hope that you'll continue to post in the "wrecked gardens".
Sincerely,
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
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Well Spoken !
Bill who has read many books and retains perhaps 5 %. Of this 5 % there are many differences and the water gets muddy often a fancy way of saying confusion . Still I think of the idea that amongst the muddy water try to remember the purity of the lotus .
<
http://www.writespirit.net/blog/images/bali-lotus.jpg
--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

Not all who wander are lost.
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value and very little place on a gardening forum. That you cannot enter into a civilized discourse without them says a lot about you and the confidence you have in your opinions.
>It was with the facts. Really. The facts according whom? What you did was take information out of context and blow it up out of proportion to the specific question. No one was disputing that soil organisms can have an influence on soil pH but it is relatively minor in the grand scheme of things. Other factors have a far greater influence. And they typically react to existing conditions rather than creating their own. The facts are that plants do not create soil chemistry or even alter it to any significant degree - it is what it is independent of them.

I have no intention of being run off by the likes of you. I am extremely secure in my education and my knowledge - I've been in the horticultural industry for a long time - and I will offer advice and suggestions to the best of my ability to those whom I think can benefit from it.
However, I do accept your apology....or whatever it is. It's the first semi-gracious thing I've seen you write,ses
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Self esteem: check Ego: check. Hubris: check
Looks like she's good to go.
So tranquility returns to the little band of intrepid gardeners. See them racking the ground smooth. Others are laying out the seed beds, while others wrap tape around their rolls of dimes.
In article

--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
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With our heavy freeze warning for tonight, people in this area better be covering up any plants they have out.
wrote:

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Excellent, please stay. One does need mental callouses here and in life general. Take and give what you want and ignore the rest. If some one hands out a personal attack - just smile and move on. I, like many others here have enjoyed a good slam at others also. Smile and Enjoy Life. I have found this newsgroup has many well educated university degreed individuals. A most useful newsgroup.
Enjoy Life ... Dan
--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

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On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 19:24:36 -0400, "Dan L."

Meaning???
What about us pig-ignernt autodidacts? Are we useful too??
Ain't it a funny thing..... and 'twas ever thus.
Sniff, sniff.....
Charlie
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Charlie wrote:

At least those of us who repeatedly made the "Dean's Other List" probably have a good dose of common sense. Which, apologies to Gallagher, isn't all that common.
Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G
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To quote Fr Jim Tucker, "All of this should go without saying, but common sense is surprisingly uncommon."
According to our oft absent, acerbic, taskmaster, Bill R., most of this should go without saying. His vision of rec.gardens appears to be on of terse questions and responses, both of which should be brief and to the point, lacking any sign of humanity or individuality. Some of us prefer "wrecked gardens" because it feels less "buttoned down" and more human.
I'm not knocking Bill R. for his attitude. In truth, he posts extraneous material ("Digital Camera - Pentax *ist DL"), he shows individuality, ("You are never to old to play in the dirt"), and posts on how the way things should be (see his post above).
I'm not sure what "noise" Bill R. would be referring to, but by any measure, the preponderance of what gets posted here has to do with the hows and the whys of gardening, and the social forces affecting gardening, whether it be dumb Ag policies, or companies like Monsanto trying to create a monopoly on seeds, to the detriment of gardeners and farmers alike, or companies like ConAgra encouraging and facilitating the consumption of nutrient deficient, processed foods, or the dangers of ingesting produce imbued with herbicide/pesticide residues, or health concerns about exotic proteins from GMO crops. It seems, to me, those subjects should all be fair game for a gardening forum.
Then their are the unfortunate ones like keelematt who comes along like so many before, apparently oblivious to the reasons behind the organic movement, saying, in effect, that they have poured gallon$ of herbicide$/in$ecticide$ on a problem, but the problem persists, and should they pour more? Having civilly answered this question ad nauseam times before, I would beg some understanding for those of us who try to get the posters attention, and the attention of others who are tempted to post similar questions, by hitting them over the head with a (figuratively) 2" X 4". Poisoning the planet is a bad idea. Why don't people see that?
Charlie has posted on soil amendments like special clays, charcoal, pointed out the dubious wisdom of spreading toxic, mine tailings on lawns and gardens, shared his experience with different garden cultivars, and noted the effect on the quality and cost of produce because of government policies.
Bill W. brings an understated sensibility of gardening to the groups, as well as some culture, inspired by what we like, so much, to do. Often, he is first with a site, which will resolve a poster's problem.
Maddie finds ways of inspiring some of the most slothful of us with her reflections on gardening, and time, and place. (Thanks Maddie, I'll be out this week end checking the prices on "Easter Lilies")
Jangchub, for all her drama, responds with advice on a myriad of subjects and even shares from from her labors.
Hopefully, brooklin1, will dial back his abrasiveness to more conventional invectives and venues, because he also has much to offer.
Although, I presume, the above are the malefactors of your ire, Bill R. don't forget the majority of irreplaceable and helpful people here like: Bungadora Cheryl Isaak Chookie David E. Ross David Hare-Scott Emilie Enigma FarmI Glenna Rose Ingrid Jan Flora Kay Lancaster Lilah Morgan Omelet Pat in Plymouth Susan N, The Cook Val
Apologies to those not mentioned, it's a big team. To paraphrase Shakespear,"All the world is a garden, and in our time, we all get to play many parts."
So, "wrecked gardeners" get out your shovels and rakes. Tape up those rolls of dimes, it's time to rum . . . uh, garden ;O)

--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
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As for the deer, more serious weaponry may be allowed? I'm making major height improvements to my electric fence this spring, as well as a more serious campaign of baiting it with bits of aluminum foil coated with peanut butter for aversion training. Maybe I'll get more than two heads of radicchio for Dear Lady to put in her excellent salads.
As for who first noted the rarity of common sense, it's probably like *Hanlon/Heinlein's law, evident enough to have been commented on by various folk.
I don't find the noise level objectionable; certainly less than the average pub approaching closing time, if memory serves. And I do observe that in many conversations the really good stuff is in the digressions.
Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G
*"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
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Have you tried hanging bars of "irish spring" bar soap from your fence? I have read that this may work in keeping deer away. The soap smells like humans. Deer here can jump a six foot fence with ease, electric or not.
Thanks for the idea of planting radicchio as deer bait. My apple and pear trees are taking too long to grow by the deer blind. Will radicchio last through November ... hmmmm.
Enjoy Life ... Dan
--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

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On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 17:26:13 -0400, "Dan L."

Deer have destroyed most fruit trees in my neighborhood, including the decorative fruit trees. The Irish soap, along with other methods, did nothing to keep deer out. Many remedies require reapplication after it rains, not good. However, the deer respect my electric fence and stay away. Without it, I would not have any vegetables. Squirrels, deer, dogs (and myself) have been zapped--not something you easily forget.
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wrote:

No shooting in the city here. Bow and arrow does the job silently. Deer burger will be on the menu, naturally low in fat.
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On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 16:51:39 -0400, Gary Woods

Ah Billy......here is another of us who has been blessed with a Dear Lady!! Smiles for your Dear Lady, Gary!

How often "common sense" is suppressed by "proper" and "formal" training. Or perhaps those lacking such sense are drawn to "disciplines" to replace lack of such?? Who knows.....four pints down musings. ;-)

A very apt, and likely, comparison! ;-)

Yep. Online and IRL.

I've always loved the above cudgel, errr....quote!!
Charlie
"I am not one of those who in expressing opinions confine themselves to facts." --- Mark Twain
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wrote:

Special clays? Now dammit, Boss, what are you doing bringing up that azomite/bentonite roundabout, huh? Just because an acquaintence of mine spread a truckload all about a one acre test plot of grass, for his grassfed beeves, and found no noticeable improvement over the grass quality or preference by the steers for the test grass over the control acres, is no reason to be a rubbin' my nose in the issue! But I'll betcha an analysis of the meat would show a significantly higher mineral content....
Sheesh, you cain't even remember where you left your corkscrew, yet you recall this? Crikey!
Other than this bit, a damn fine post, damn fine.
Carry on.

One might apply the word *diverse* to the cast of characters, nyet?

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On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 09:19:58 -0400, Gary Woods

LOL
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Well Charley, your knowledge of gardening is greater than mine. The University of Self Taught is also of great importance. My degree is in Computer Science, not Horticulture. I am just finishing the educational part of the MSU Master Gardener Volunteers program. I depend on this newsgroup for knowledge and my entertainment :)
Enjoy Life ... Dan
--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

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On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 16:36:16 -0400, "Dan L."

Well now, thankee very much, for inclusion into the Club! By the way, I said I was pig-ignernt and self taught, never said I ain't got me no papers or letters after me name, nor did I say that I do have one of them wallhangers, (hell, it's hard to remember, it was the seventies, you know) though Billy's guy is gonna make me look smarter'n a coon during sweet corn season! In three colors, no less! ;-) I've spent a lonnng time trying to unlearn what I was learnt at University and before. I will say though, I were on the Dean's Other List with Gary. We received the better education.

Oh, I am enjoying life, more all the time, even with the buzzard shit that comes with aging. Stick around.......I'm sure there is much more enlightenment thru entertainment coming up! ;-)
--
Charlie

"So keep fightin' for freedom and justice, beloveds, but don't you
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Dan L. wrote:

Dan,
While I agree with you that there are still some very knowledgeable people that post, there are MANY of us that post a lot less (or not at all) because of all the "noise" here. Not only is all the off topic stuff distracting the name calling (and worse) is good reason to abandon these newsgroups. There are many moderated garden boards where the people are civil (or else) and that is where a lot of us have gone.
--
Bill R. (Ohio Valley, U.S.A)

"You are never to old to play in the dirt"
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wrote:

God, I'll bet you're a barrel of fun to spend a day with, Bill, working in the garden.
Charlie
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