Desperate Help To Kill Grass

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Hi All, I am desperate for some help in killing grass off on an area we spent a fortune on last year with membranes, large gravel etc only to find that there is grass ever where we look. We have tried bleach, salt, black discinfectant, boiling water and not a thing has worked.
The problem we think is we have is that our neighbours decided to seed a brand new lawn last year. And every couple of weeks they were reseeding it. Now we have patches of grass all over it.
The membrane was a good membrane and we did everything we should. In the rear it worked ok. But in the front it is terrible.
Our front garden is not used, only to look at basically, but we need something super super strong that will kill this grass once and for all. We have tried pulling it out by hand and that has not stopped it at all due to obviously remaining roots.
It cost hundreds of pounds to get it done which we really didn't have, a huge amount of back breaking hours and it looks utterly dreadful.
Can anyone please recommend something which is fantastically strong and will do the job. We have already spent quite a bit of money sorting it out and are no further forward at all.
Thanks
--
Helen Middlemas

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Helen Middlemas wrote:

Concrete pavement.
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Roundup.
Salt is not a good idea.
--
Dan Espen

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On Monday, March 24, 2014 9:15:55 AM UTC-7, mlcwa wrote:

I was just about to suggest the infamous Roundup. Sometimes one has to take a detour around one's principles <g>
If you use it, be sure to follow directions. Important is to water well before applying.
Definitely, salt is a no-no. Look back in history at how conquerers sowed the land of their defeated enemies with salt.
What is a "membrane"? Is that a UK term? Don't remember hearing it Over Here.
Good luck.
HB
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On Monday, March 24, 2014 12:15:55 PM UTC-4, mlcwa wrote:

In my experience Roundup is not strong enough. Find something that says it will Kill All. MJ
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On 3/24/2014 12:15 PM, Dan.Espen wrote:

Salt and strong acids can do a job on concrete. I suspect strong acetic acid and even vinegar would do it to. Tried and true methods like flame, Roundup and even covering completely from sun light would work.
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On 03/24/2014 06:42 AM, Helen Middlemas wrote:

Hi Helen,
Not sure this will work for you but at our animal livestock supply stores, you can buy really strong vinegar. (The stuff in the grocery store does not work.) The strong stuff is "suppose" to work.
Good luck, -T
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Damn, some fool used GG and double spaced the entire thread. I've fixed the little part I'm replying too. Anyway, give us a break and DUMP GG.
Yeah, I hesitated to mention Roundup. We have some posters here that get irrational. Nothing at all wrong with it when used for the right way. When a pro comes in to give you a new lawn, they kill the old lawn/weeds with Roundup. A little later they put in seeds, and new then nice new lawn. New grass grows, right after the terrible Roundup. Go figure.
A membrane has to be something like landscape cloth.
--
Dan Espen

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On Monday, March 24, 2014 12:37:36 PM UTC-7, mlcwa wrote:

I WOULD LOVE TO! I HATE THE WAY THEY ARE TAKING OVER THE WORLD.
Just haven't had the time or ability to find an email client that allows en try to news groups with more flexibility than GG. Would also like to have killfiling ability, for example, in another NG that gives good advice on [s ubject] but is also polluted with scary ***************.
Someone suggested Thunderbird way back, and I tried, but it got too complic ated for moi.

HB
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     snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net (Dan.Espen) writes:

Roundup is taken up by green leaves and (as I recall) no longer works once dry. So by the time the old lawn is dead, so is the Killer Power. I mostly reserve it for poison ivy.

That was my take. Otherwise I'd suggest a flame weeder. If the area is soaked well first, a flame weeder may still work. It works wonders at clearing my back fence (chain link), where the neighbors let everything grow up. (I think they'd rather look at tall weeds than my sloppy gardens.)
--
Drew Lawson So risk all or don't risk anything
You can lose all the same
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On 3/24/2014 6:42 AM, Helen Middlemas wrote:

In the U.S., grass-specific herbicides are available. I use Gress-Getter, which has the same active ingredient as Poast. The instructions inidcate mixing Grass-Getter with agricultural oil (a very light oil) as a wetting agent; but I use liquid soap instead. This is very effective where grass and non-grass plants grow together and I only want to kill the grass.
The active ingredient is Sethoxydim: 2-[1-(ethoxyimino) butyl]-5-[2-(ethylthio)propyl]-3-hydroxy-2-cyclohexen-1-one
--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
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snipped-for-privacy@furrfu.invalid (Drew Lawson) writes:

I use it on my brick path ways, and patio. I'll hand pull, but the Roundup makes most weeds go away for a longer time. I tried painting it on poison ivy with no obvious effect.
Todd's suggestion to use vinegar (acetic acid), gets some endorsement online. I'm not 100% convinced, it's an acid, wouldn't that mess with the soil PH?
I have roof moss and Roundup just doesn't seem right, maybe I'll try the vinegar there. I tried dilute bleach and got a subdued reaction from the moss.
Is there always something in the soil to break it down to neutral? It is CH3COOH which seems pretty innocuous, just carbon, hydrogen, oxygen.
The safety information for vinegar should have the Roundup naysayers running for cover:
Concentrated acetic acid is corrosive to skin and must, therefore, be handled with appropriate care, since it can cause skin burns, permanent eye damage, and irritation to the mucous membranes.[57][58] These burns or blisters may not appear until hours after exposure. Latex gloves offer no protection, so specially resistant gloves, such as those made of nitrile rubber, are worn when handling the compound. Concentrated acetic acid can be ignited with difficulty in the laboratory. It becomes a flammable risk if the ambient temperature exceeds 39 °C (102 °F), and can form explosive mixtures with air above this temperature (explosive limits: 5.4–16%). Acetic acid is a strong eye, skin, and mucous membrane irritant. Prolonged skin contact with glacial acetic acid may result in tissue destruction. Inhalation exposure (8 hours) to acetic acid vapours at 10 ppm could produce some irritation of eyes, nose, and throat; at 100 ppm marked lung irritation and possible damage to lungs, eyes, and skin might result. Vapour concentrations of 1,000 ppm cause marked irritation of eyes, nose and upper respiratory tract and cannot be tolerated. These predictions were based on animal experiments and industrial exposure. Skin sensitization to acetic acid is rare, but has occurred. It has been reported that, 12 workers exposed for two or more years to an estimated mean acetic acid airborne concentration of 51 ppm, there were symptoms of conjunctive irritation, upper respiratory tract irritation, and hyperkeratotic dermatitis. Exposure to 50 ppm or more is intolerable to most persons and results in intensive lacrimation and irritation of the eyes, nose, and throat, with pharyngeal oedema and chronic bronchitis. Un acclimatized humans experience extreme eye and nasal irritation at concentrations in excess of 25 ppm, and conjunctivitis from concentrations below 10 ppm has been reported. In a study of 5 workers exposed for 7 to 12 years to concentrations of 80 to 200 ppm at peaks, the principal findings were blackening and hyperkeratosis of the skin of the hands, conjunctivitis (but no corneal damage), bronchitis and pharyngitis, and erosion of the exposed teeth (incisors and canines).[59]
Nasty stuff.
(Yeah I know, diluted, you can eat it.)
Just a little satire.
--
Dan Espen

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Helen Middlemas wrote:

As others have said use glyphosate. Roundup is the trade name of the original and (often) the most expensive version. Follow the directions for use and safety instructions carefully. The point about using it effectively is to use it when the plant is growing strongly so that firstly it is absorbed through the leaves and secondly it is carried down to the roots through the plant's system. Some people use it when the plant is dormant thinking when the plant is weaker it is vulnerable: wrong. Avoid spraying when rain is coming or before using a sprinkler as if you wash it off before it is absorbed it won't work, contact in itself does nothing.
D
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On 3/24/2014 10:26 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:

I once read that, for vigorous perennial weeds, mix RoundUp slightly less strong than the label instructions. It does damage the entire plant not just the roots. By making it a bit weak, you ensure that it does indeed reach the roots instead of killing the path to the roots.
For any spray or brush-on chemical, I always add liquid soap as a wetting agent.
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David E. Ross
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Dan.Espen wrote:

It's very easy to get rid of roof moss, remove whatever is shading the roof, then spray with bathroom tile mildew remover... if you do not remove whatever is shading the area the moss will come right back... I'd not wait too long before rectifying your problem either, moss indicates a moisture problem, your roof will soon be leaking as the roofing and sheathing beneath will be ruined, and home owner insurance will not cover your neglect.
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     snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net (Dan.Espen) writes:

Poison ivy is tough, especially if it has managed to get established. The problem with RoundUp on it (and other perennials) is that RoundUp does not kill plants. It inhibits an enzyme the roots need. If the plant has food stores, it can just go dormant, wait out the RoundUp and come back a little weaker. That (as far as I can tell) happens with poison ivy. My impression from many years back is that dandelions do the same.
Unfortunately, I react strongly to poison ivy, so digging it out is often not an option (especially if it is rooted on the neighbor's side of the fence).

I've never tried the vinegar method. The suggestions I've seen usually are for surface application (or pouring in hollow stems). That might not change the soil much. I don't know.

I don't know whether RoundUp works on moss. My botany is too weak to say whether moss uses roots the same way.

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Well, the shade can't be cured. Neighbors huge trees. I know they won't remove them. It's pretty shady anyway, as the house faces directly south and theses are in the back.
If find it odd that you think a fungicide will work on moss. Not really the same thing.
Thanks for the pointers on the urgency. I know I have to do something.
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On Tue, 25 Mar 2014 10:33:39 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net (Dan.Espen) wrote:

You can legally remove whatever parts of those trees cross your property line, from hell to heaven, just at your expense.. might pay to discuss this with your neihgbor and come up with a plan whereas his trees aren't pruned so heavily that they look unsightly and then share the cost. If that doesn't stop the moss from growing it won't be too long you'll need your roof repaired so I suggest before your roof leaks and does horrendous damage inside your house you have that section replaced with a different roofing materal, possibly a roofer will suggest metal roofing for that section.

Not the same but it works... moss grows on my black top driveway in front of the garage door because that faces north and never sees sun. So each spring I spray that area with tile grout cleaner and apply elbow grease with a stiff brushed scrubber... actually what I first used is vinyl siding cleaner compound that contains an anti mildew agent, I discovered it works on moss when I power washd my house and the compound ran down my driveway, only I can't use a power washer on blacktop or it will lift out the stones and leave holes, with heavy use a power washer even on a low setting will destroy blacktop. Whatever the chemical(s) in that power washer cleaner it kills moss, then it can take a month or two for the dead moss to decay and wash away. But naturally during the next summer it grows back, and I can't prune my garage. The moss won't harm my driveway but it looks unsightly.

Yes, I'd not put it off.
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On 3/25/2014 3:19 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:

Good idea to seal your driveway. There is enough free space in the composite to allow moisture intrusion and repeated freezing and thawing will degrade it faster.
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You'd have to see it. It's not one tree it's an entire stand of trees. It blocks the morning sun, until around 11AM. After then the sun is still not high enough to clear the peak, the roof is about 45 degrees. Then after 1PM the rest of the house blocks the roof with the worst problem.
Like I said, lasts year I hit it a couple of times with bleach and it didn't look quite as robust as before. Right now (winter) there's not much there. I'll get it this year or call one of those roof cleaning outfits.
I'd guess zinc strips would deal with it too. Right now I'm trying to find the solution that works with the least environmental impact. That's why I started with an oxidizer (bleach).
Just looked. I'd say about half of it is gone.
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Dan Espen

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