"Cursed" spot in garden?

[John Ladasky]

Hi, folks!

Gardening in San Jose, California -- USDA zone 9, Sunset zone 16.

I have a prominent space at the edge of a (grumble) lawn, located next to an apple tree, but just out from under the tree's drip line (when it's in leaf). The spot is about a square meter. It's at the bottom of a short, shallow slope which terminates at the lawn. The soil is mostly clay, but has been amended with some organic matter. The site receives partial shade to full sun.

Grass used to grow in this location, but I have been making efforts to reduce the size of our lawn, particularly on the sloped parts of the yard. Over the past two years I have tried two different plants in this location, without lasting success. Initially, the plants thrive and grow. About a year later, they croak. My first attempt was with jagged lavender (Lavandula pinnata); my second, with ornamental quince (Chaenomeles japonica).

I don't think that I'm committing any blunders with water. Turgor pressure was good in the leaves of the lavender, right until the point when it decided to die. I'm actually not sure that the quince is dead yet -- but it lost about 95% of its leaves in late summer, which was far too early, even as turgor in the remaining leaves was still good. It isn't setting buds right now, which it should be doing.

All around the drip line of this apple tree, and even under it to some extent, plants are thriving. It's just this one spot that refuses to grow anything. I'm not the kind of gardener who normally likes to force a piece of ground to do something that it doesn't wish to do. But I have trouble believing that nothing will grow on this spot besides the grass that I removed. Help me, before I kill again! Suggestions are appreciated!

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[Cereus-validus-...........]

Put some sort of sculpture there instead.

A garden gnome perhaps?

[Mr. Bill]

Just an opinion but it sounds as though the underlying soil is, for lack of a better term "poisoned". I don't mean there is a poison in the soil, just that there is something in it that was bad enough to keep your plants from growing. Could be a fungus or salts or nematodes or something of that nature.

I would take a soil sample from the area all around the area that doesn't seem to want to grow anything to the extention service and have an anylisys done to see if there is a reason other than a curse on the spot.

Good luck.

Mr. Bill

[John Ladasky]

That would have to be one big, fat gnome!

I am considering a bird bath, though. I'd like to try something inexpensive and green first.

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[Cereus-validus-...........]

Inexpensive and green?

How about an inflatable kiddy pool?

[John Ladasky]

[snip]

I've thought about this possibility. If it is true, I'm surprised that the effect is so local. I'm also surprised that it didn't affect the grass that was growing there two years ago.

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[RobinM]

Hi

You say grass USED to grow here, and that you're making efforts to reduce the size of the lawn. Does this mean you removed the grass from this site? If so, how did you kill the grass?

Robin Alexandria, VA

[RobinM]

Actually, since these plants were at the bottom of a slope where run-off might collect, and both of them prefer less water rather than more water, are you sure they haven't been getting TOO much water, rather than too little?

Robin Alexandria, VA

[John Ladasky]

Yes, I removed the grass. I did it the old-fashioned way, with a pickaxe and shovel. I avoid chemical methods whenever I can. A large swath of the adjacent hillside was treated the same way, at the same time. Plenty of new plants are growing there.

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[John Ladasky]

I thought about that -- but I am a California gardener, and I actually like to be stingy with water. I watered this spot by hand when needed, deeply and infrequently. If anything, I would have expected the plants to wilt as they succumbed to the summer drought conditions. This isn't how they died, as I described in my original post.

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[Charles]

A pond with water lilies.

[Mr. Bill]

Again, I say a soil test is your best bet. The grass may have been in good soil as only the top few inches are needed to grow grass. In tilling the soil you may have uncovered earth that has too much of something or not enough of something in it. If the offending substance were localized way back when (before you even bought the property) then there would be no way of you knowing. In Ohio some years ago I ran into something like this and it turned out to be a large pocket of gravel under the clay soil, just below the two spit depth of my double dug bed. There was a railroad tie sized chunk of wood down there with it. I have no idea how it got there but after removing it everything worked out well.

Mr. Bill

[Dwayne]

Would it be a good spot for a picnic table?

Dwayne

[John Ladasky]

The spot is too small for that. What's more, the back deck is only a few steps away. There's already a table on the deck. But the spot is also too large for a garden gnome, as suggested by "Cereus-validus". If I put something there besides a plant, a bird bath would be the right size. Of course, I would need to make sure that I don't breed mosquitoes in it...

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[mleblanca]

John Ladasky wrote

Hello John I tend to agree with Robin that there is a problem with too much water. Not too much in summer, when you have control over the amount, and are sparing with it. But too much in winter, when you have no control over what Ma Nature provides, and that has been quite a lot recently. The combination of clay soil, lots of water, and cold winter is not a good situation at any time for lavender, which requires not just good drainage, but excellent drainage. I am north of you and have excellent well drained soil, but still need to plant lavender on a raised area to get it thru the winter. You mentioned that the plantst do ok until the next year, after they have gone thru a wet, cold winter. These same conditions are probably not good for the quince, either.

You might try adding more soil of a lighter texture and provide a raised bed, berm, or mound for better drainage. Or you might try something that doesn't seem to mind cold, wet conditions in winter, like New England aster and goldenrod, or maybe callas. They do well in those conditions up here. And the birdbath idea is not bad either. Near the deck where you could watch, and the apple tree for cover. I have never had any problem with mosquitoes in a birdbath. In the summer it dries up too fast, and the scrub jays empty it every time they take a bath!!! You will have more of a problem with algae I think. You could plant some low annuals around the area. They would not be there in winter, and could be replaced with cool weather annuals.

If you do decide to go with a soil test, you will not get it done at the extension service in Calif., but will need to find a private soil lab.

Good luck and let us know the outcome Emilie NorCal

[Tomes]

Perhaps the grass does not go deep enough Tomes

[Keith]

I had a friend who pulled up about a square meter of his lawn so he could plant 4 tomato plants. They kept dying, despite his best efforts, even though the grass around that area was fine.

He also had 3 cats, and I asked him where they did their business... he groaned, and gave up trying to get those tomatoes to grow anymore, it was a losing battle.

Any cats in your yard?

8-)

"John Ladasky" sagely wrote in news: [e-mail]:

[John Ladasky]

Interesting idea, but no. Our dog chases away any cats that come in to the yard. And before you ask whether the dog might be cursing the garden with contributions of her own, she isn't. Much to my dismay, her favorite places to poop are those places where humans are most likely to walk -- the deck, and the pathways.

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[LAH]

If grass once grew there, how about trying an ornamental grass?

[Persephone]

Err...you might want to take her to a qualified dog psychiatrist who can analyze her "issues"...is there some latent hostility manifesting itself in her poop-choices?

(Just kidding )

Persephone