Compost Heap. Horse Manure. Pathogens.

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The only place it USED

The New Guinea cannibal tribes? how disappointing, but thank you for the information anyway, although I do have to tell you there are better information sources than the Amazon book buying hype, unless you are getting paid for hits.
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The Fore of Papua, New Guinea.

Somewhere between zone 5 and 6 tucked along the shore of Lake Michigan on the council grounds of the Fox, Mascouten, Potawatomi, and Winnebago
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snipped-for-privacy@cam.ac.uk wrote:

It didn't do cattle farmers much good. They took all the flack but were not responsible for it. Animals died a particularly nasty death as did a few very unlucky humans. Most could be traced back to cheap and nasty mechanically recovered meat characteristic of your average junk food vendor. Some real cuts of meat also ceased to exist as a result.
And all to make a few extra bucks for the feed companies by cutting corners on the processing.

It was bad enough that living in the UK during the relevant period prevented you giving blood in countries nominally free from BSE/nv-CJD. The infectious agent was just too hard to detect in the early days.

Prions seem to be rather potent infective agents if they get the chance. It is also potentially a very slow burning infection in humans so it is possible that the damage already done will only show up around 2030.

It isn't clear whether they created a new disease or massively amplified the transmission rate of an existing low level illness by forcing ruminants to become cannibals and adding diseased meat into the mix.
I suspect if they had restricted this cavalier practice of putting noxious junk into animal food to pigs there would not have been a problem. Omnivores are better able to cope with a dodgy diet. Infected cows died a horrible death which did at least alert people to the problem. It only really made the news when it got too common to ignore.
The official view at first was that it was scrapie which was the equivalent disease in sheep didn't pose a problem for humans. That was fine until people started to die of nv-CJD. I would still like to see some of the cowboys that relaxed the rules prosecuted. YMMV
Regards, Martin Brown
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Precisely.
Precisely.
No, it has been definitely identified as different from scrapie, in being more easily transmitted across species and (if I recall) rather nastier even in sheep.

It was also due to a couple of whistle-blowers. The government was doing its usual (attempting to scapegoat them) when the publicity started, and they backpedalled as fast as only Whitehall can. If it hadn't been for them, we would have had an extra couple of years before any action was taken.
Regards, Nick Maclaren.
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snipped-for-privacy@cam.ac.uk wrote:

Sorry. I didn't mean to imply that it was scrapie. More that it was a pre-existing condition in just a handful of cows either arising spontaneously or as a very low level rare infection that stayed below the radar. If a vet only saw one case in a lifetime for instance.
It was only when we provided a means for the infection to spread rapidly that exponential growth in the number of cases occurred.

I wonder if Gummers granddaughter still eats burgers?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/369625.stm
After that total fiasco it was no surprise that government statements about GM food being safe to eat were not believed.
Regards, Martin Brown
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Ah. Yes, I agree that is possible. I believe that the consensus is that it was a new variant of scrapie, but nobody knows for sure, and your hypothesis is very plausible.

The motto of the British government is "Never tell the truth when a lie will do."
Regards, Nick Maclaren.
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Wild Billy wrote:

Only the politicians
David
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Indeed. And I thought the CDC was a very strange choice of site given that the disease has not ever been in the US.
The Merkins I was referring to are

Some American can be very severe pains in the posterior but then so are some of every nationality.

That is 100% death rate if you believe your cite of the CDC. Even Ebola is not that lethal.
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As I said, the appropriate analysis is game theory. The cost of getting the Hendra Virus is death, but the probability of doing so is almost zero.
Regards, Nick Maclaren.
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wrote:

Hendra virus (formerly called equine morbillivirus) is a member of the family Paramyxoviridae. Nipah virus, also a member of the family Paramyxoviridae, is related but not identical to Hendra virus.
Funny, when I read this page, it says,"Two of the three human patients infected with Hendra virus died (Australia). During the Nipah virus disease outbreak in 1998-99 (Malaysia and Singapore), 257 patients were infected with the virus. About 40% of those patients who entered hospitals with serious nervous disease died from the illness."
--

- Billy

"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is
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On 15/07/09 16:24, Bob Hobden wrote:

No, I not no expert scientist or nothing nor read scientific papers. I am just a gardener. But I see a few articles on the web that says if you maintain a hot heap then it will kill pathogens.. If you run a cold heap then these things are not killed off with the heat. Hence my concern.
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Ed wrote:

If the bins were more like 6'x6'x6' they would probably hold enough heat in the bulk material to become hot. I only turn mine once to put the edges into the middle.

A hot heap works a bit faster and it is only really hot for a few days. Mainly it helps to kill off weed seeds. My heaps go hot when I put a few cubic metres of grass cuttings on them in one go. I have had one up to smouldering. If you can add enough of anything to the heap at once with the right amount of water you will get it hot for a while. The horse dung will act OK as an accelerant, but if you want something that will encourage a hot heap then the proprietory mix Garotta (sp?) seems to work as well as anything.
I wouldn't worry about pathogens from horse dung either. And if you have access to plenty of straw and horse manure it is worth fermenting some to make your own mushroom compost. I might worry about that persistent residual pesticide that has been causing trouble in winter hay though.
Regards, Martin Brown
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If there is nothing to kill off, then why worry. Many compost heaps have diseased plant material that can harm plants. There is a concern then. But non-caninvore and non-omnivore waste is not a major concern.
The hydrogen sulfide, methane, ammonia, and carbon dioxide given off by fresh manure are concerns in hot or cold compost heaps. Horse manure is a solid waste excluded from federal regulation because it neither contains significant amounts of listed hazardous components, nor exhibits hazardous properties. C. tetani is reportedly found in equine manure, but does not represent a source of significant public health risk. Many common equine helminths (worms, bots, etc.) are pathogenic to domestic animals but are not pathogenic to man. Generally speaking, horse guts do not contain the 120 viruses and constituents of concern in human, dog and cat feces (carnivores and omnivores). Most viruses with zoonotic potential (animals infecting humans) are not found in horse wastes.
Pathogens of primary concern are waterborne microorganisms that usually follow ingestion pathways into the body. Transmission can also occur through direct oral-fecal exposure. These include Cryptosporidium parvum , Giardia duodenalis, Campylocbacter spp, Salmonella spp., pathogenic strains of E. coli, andYersinia spp. By far, C. parvum and Giardia are the two of most concern because they have very low thresholds of infectious dose. People infected by these organisms may exhibit a range of symptoms from mild abdominal discomfort to death, especially among the very young, elderly, and people with immunologically suppressed systems. Neither of these organisms can be destroyed easily with traditional water treatment processes.
So if you use horse manure, make sure the people that gathered it washed their hands after using a toilet. They and their pets are much more of a concern than the horse manure itself.
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Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA - http://rhodyman.net
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On 15 July, 17:40, snipped-for-privacy@cam.ac.uk wrote:

And, indeed, our local authority who two years ago warned people to scald the produce from their allotments because "95% of home grown produce is contaminated with salmonella"
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Don't know anything about this hot or cold compost business. We don't even have a bin, just a compost heap at the back of our garden (it's sort of contained by two sides of a rotting fence and a neighbour's stone outhouse) and have been 'mining' this from the bottom for the last 25 years. We dig it out from the bottom, then riddle it through a garden sieve, and use it on our garden and allotments. Everything organic, such as meat and veg bits from the kitchen goes into it, as well as dead bodies of rats and mice our cats catch, and feathers of pheasants we find on the road and prepare for the table, and poo and stuff we find in the garden. Also any other unpleasant thing, like food that has gone off. We cover the top of the heap with grass cuttings when we mow the lawn, and just keep piling the stuff on. It seems to take about 3 years for the stuff at the top to de-percolate down to the bottom. We collect horse manure and pile it in heaps nearby and when it rots down enough we shovel it onto the garden and allotments.
I haven't heard of anyone getting sick from using home-made compost.
WARNING: over the last year or so, horse manure is to be avoided, because apparently horse owners and farmers are using a new toxic weedkiller which the horses ingest in the field when grazing, and it passes through their gut and if you use the manure, it will kill your plants off. I understand that this will be discussed on Friday in Gardener's Question Time, BBC4, http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qp2f/episodes/upcoming
someone
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Ed wrote:

Horse dung hot, horse dung cold, horse dung in the heap 9 weeks old.
I run horses and use their manure in the garden all the time. There are precious few if any pathogens in horse manure that will harm a human. I know people who spend their lives shovelling dung daily without a mask and it does them no harm.
Hot composting is to kill weed seeds, microorganisms are your friends.
David
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At the risk of sounding like a nouveau Victor Meldrew, what's gone wrong with us?
I had my hands in fresh horse manure a few months ago when I helped a friend muck out his stables.
My dog was there and thoroughly enjoyed eating horse poo - don't ask - it's a dog thing. I did try to stop him but that was only a bit more effective as stopping a gourmand access to free cakes and chocolate ;)
I'm up to date with tetanus and have been since about 5 years old. What's the problem? Anyone gardening should be... more likely to get it from soil than horses. Or rusty nails. Stood on them when I was a kid, and Kate Humble's older brother (yes, she of Springwatch) threw an electric fencing stake javelin-style at me by accident once and I still have the scar on my knee.
Immune systems need to be built up, or grown: you won't get one unless you do the work.
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In article

My kids in sand box growing up with cat shit. Blood feces urine life.
Bill no asthma here
--

Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

http://prototype.nytimes.com/gst/articleSkimmer /
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Thank God for a sensible post at long last on horse manure
Get a life some of you.
My daughter and son in law bred Arabs and 'were up to their arms' in horse muck so to speak for years. Never did any harm
Little story about being toooooooooooooooooooooooo careful and clean. Some friends had two daughters. "Spotlessly clean" all the time, as was the house. If one daughter fell over and dirtied her dress, BOTH were washed and changed clothes. Those two girls were always going down with colds or what ever there was about. No immune system to fight anything off. -- Mike
The Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association www.rneba.org.uk Luxury Self Catering on the Isle of Wight? www.shanklinmanormews.co.uk
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There seems to be a lot of bull manure in this thread about horse manure.
mark
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