CLAY SOIL

[Registered User]

I am about to move to an area in the Dallas/Ft. Worth metroplex where the soil is a hard black clay. I have a neighbor that also recently moved out there and has a small tractor with a tiller/front end loader. Earlier today we made a few trips and brought in two trailer loads of top soil from a sand pit. We tilled it into the clay soil and it seemed to loosen the soil and make it more workable. They also have, "Padding" sand that is used by construction workers before pouring concrete slabs... the guy at the sand pit couldnt tell me which would make a better clay additive. He seemed to think that the top soil had more plant nutrients, but would be less likely to loosen the soil as well as the Padding Soil. We are both pretty new to gardening and I was hoping someone could give us some advice on making the clay soil more of a viable mix for growing a vegetable garden. I really need something that when mixed with the clay will prevent it from becoming so hard and compacted... I dont see anything growing in that soil - without some sort of improvement.

[Guy Bannis]

Padding "sand" or "soil"? The use of sand to improve clay soil is controversial, whereas pumping in organic matter is well-accepted.

There are mixes out there (Web) that are designed specifically to improve clay soil.

[Lar]

In article , [e-mail] says... :) I am about to move to an area in the Dallas/Ft. Worth :) metroplex where the soil is a hard black clay. I have a neighbor that :) also recently moved out there and has a small tractor with a :) tiller/front end loader. Earlier today we made a few trips and brought :) in two trailer loads of top soil from a sand pit. We tilled it into :) the clay soil and it seemed to loosen the soil and make it more :) workable. They also have, "Padding" sand that is used by construction :) workers before pouring concrete slabs... the guy at the sand pit :) couldnt tell me which would make a better clay additive. He seemed to :) think that the top soil had more plant nutrients, but would be less :) likely to loosen the soil as well as the Padding Soil. We are both :) pretty new to gardening and I was hoping someone could give us some :) advice on making the clay soil more of a viable mix for growing a :) vegetable garden. I really need something that when mixed with the :) clay will prevent it from becoming so hard and compacted... I dont see :) anything growing in that soil - without some sort of improvement. :) Actually vegetables will grow well in the gumbo, but it's a pain to work the soil. Work in lots and lots of organic matter into the soil and continue to add to it after each growing season. Depending on the size of the garden area, this may or may not be practical, but often I see where people create a raised bed then fill it with a soil to their liking.

[Salty Thumb]

Registered User wrote in news: [e-mail]:

I've heard that adding gypsum will help break up clay soil.

[Lawrence Akutagawa]

Loam, a gardener's term for soil intermediate between clay and sand, contains a mixture of clay, silt, and sand particles. In addition, loam is well supplied with organic matter. Thus loam - a compromise between the extremes of clay and sand - is the ideal gardening soil: draining well (but not too fast drying), leaching only moderately, and containing enough air for healthy root growth.

[Lar]

In article , [e-mail] says... :) Registered User wrote in :) news: [e-mail]: :) :) :) > likely to loosen the soil as well as the Padding Soil. We are both :) > pretty new to gardening and I was hoping someone could give us some :) > advice on making the clay soil more of a viable mix for growing a :) > vegetable garden. I really need something that when mixed with the :) > clay will prevent it from becoming so hard and compacted... I dont see :) > anything growing in that soil - without some sort of improvement. :) :) I've heard that adding gypsum will help break up clay soil. :) Gypsum would be helpful in sodic soils, but our black gumbo is calcic in nature and adding gypsum (calcium sulfate) can cause more problems by increasing the calcium level.

[Starlord]

Clay + Sand = Cement, you need to till in lots and losts of compost into that clay soil.

-- "In this universe the night was falling,the shadows were lengthening towards an east that would not know another dawn. But elsewhere the stars were still young and the light of morning lingered: and along the path he once had followed, man would one day go again."

Arthur C. Clarke, The City & The Stars

SIAR

Telescope Buyers FAQ of Dahlias Slideshowv1.0 $10.00 for Windows machines. Email: [e-mail]

[Starlord]

Steer manure is much better, little or totaly no weeds at all, hourse tends to have more weed seeds in it.

-- "In this universe the night was falling,the shadows were lengthening towards an east that would not know another dawn. But elsewhere the stars were still young and the light of morning lingered: and along the path he once had followed, man would one day go again."

Arthur C. Clarke, The City & The Stars

SIAR

Telescope Buyers FAQ of Dahlias Slideshowv1.0 $10.00 for Windows machines. Email: [e-mail]

[Jason Quick]

I can say categorically that this is BS. First of all, cement doesn't have clay in it anywhere. Second, adding sand to clay, if done properly, doesn't yield a hard, unworkable soil. The secrets are:

1) Use coarse sand, like stuff sold for sandboxes, with lots of tiny pebbles in; 2) Use a lot of sand. Mass quantities.

The real problem is that adding sand to clay in small amounts doesn't really make much difference at all.

That much is correct. I find shredded leaves to be quite useful in this regard, although I don't generally till, since it tends to disturb the soil structure too much. I find that simply piling lots of organic matter in the spot where I want to plant veggies (or whatever), waiting a few months, then planting without tilling seems to work quite well. It's called "lasagna gardening," and a Google search on the subject will yield plenty of info.

Jason

[WiGard]

Sand is a poor soil amendment. Work organic material, i.e., compost, into the soil to give it better texture. Also, it will benefit you most to have a soil test done for nutrients and composition. The soil lab will give recommendations.

[Phisherman]

Clay soil is actually better than sandy soil. At least clay has some nutrients. Gypsum help break up clay soil. Working compost into the clay soil is much better than adding sand. The compost will invite earthworms and they too will help aerate the soil. Order a truckload of compost for your garden and till it in.

[WiGard]

This will alter the pH.

[Lar]

In article , [e-mail] says... :) I am about to move to an area in the Dallas/Ft. Worth :) metroplex where the soil is a hard black clay. I have a neighbor that :) also recently moved out there and has a small tractor with a :) tiller/front end loader. Earlier today we made a few trips and brought :) in two trailer loads of top soil from a sand pit. We tilled it into :) the clay soil and it seemed to loosen the soil and make it more :) workable. They also have, "Padding" sand that is used by construction :) workers before pouring concrete slabs... the guy at the sand pit :) couldnt tell me which would make a better clay additive. He seemed to :) think that the top soil had more plant nutrients, but would be less :) likely to loosen the soil as well as the Padding Soil. We are both :) pretty new to gardening and I was hoping someone could give us some :) advice on making the clay soil more of a viable mix for growing a :) vegetable garden. I really need something that when mixed with the :) clay will prevent it from becoming so hard and compacted... I dont see :) anything growing in that soil - without some sort of improvement. :) Here is a helpful link for you.

check the Texas A&M site...should be plenty of help there too.

[escapee]

Gypsum does not alter the pH of soil.

I lived in Dallas for 6 years and I gardened in the black gumbo clay every year of it. I amended my soil with tons of compost and I used lavasand, which is readily available everywhere up in the Dallas area. Stop into Northaven Garden Center or see them online first at

Also, Rohde's Garden Center in Garland is a great resource for information. Listen to J. Howard Garrett on 820 am on the weekends, Sat at 11a, Sun at 8a till noon. I can't stand him for personal reasons, but he does give good information about soil amendment.

Adding sand is okay, but it's a waste of money. Adding compost is superior to that, and making native and adapted plant selections is appropriate. The junk they call "sandy loam" in Texas is just that, junk. It's mined from dead lake beds and has no biota what so ever. It can ruin your soil worse than it already is. You need to double dig or at the very least till to a depth of 12 inches and raise the beds up. You don't need to build anything for raised beds. Just fluff the existing soil when it's not soaking wet, and you have pretty good soil.

Clay gets a bad wrap. Actually, clay soils are superior to sandy soils in that they have very high contents of nutrients. However, those nutrients are locked up in the elevated pH. If you use compost and more compost, the soil will slowly, over time, mellow and you will have a pH closer to 7.5 than the 8.5-9.0 which most black clay soils have.

If you do use gypsum as an amendment (which has worked for me) try to find the pellet form. I believe you can buy that at a garden center on 35 called, Strong's. They also have a nice selection of plant material, or they did when I lived up there.

[WiGard]

does effect pH.

[WiGard]

A handy reference page:

Apparently gypsum does affect pH.

[Salty Thumb]

WiGard wrote in news: [e-mail]:

If what the website says is true, gypsum is good buffer, pushing the pH level to a neutral 7 which is generally good (unless your plant has preferences for acidity or alkalinity). Of course that's a generalization, and may not apply if specifically your soil is already saturated in calcium or other interacting substances.

Personally, I would go with adding compost and other organic stuff. I would probably add enough gypsum to make the soil workable first, then allow the compost to balance things out. I wouldn't add sand unless there was a drainage problem.

From the website given: Amendment: · Corrects soil alkalinity, lowers high pH conditions · Counteracts acid soils, raises low pH conditions

[Frogleg]

Compost, compost, compost. Organic matter. Clay soil appears to have good nutrition -- it's the texture that's the problem. Real "topsoil" is essentially compost/humus -- the top 1-3" of stuff covering a relatively undisturbed site where plant matter has been accumulating and decaying for some time, and migrating a bit into whatever kind of dirt is underneath. "Topsoil" from a sand pit sounds like somewhat of a contradiction in terms, although possible. Clay plus sand usually produces something like cement. Clay plus sand plus organic material produces 'loam' -- a good diet for plants. Compost doesn't provide a great deal in terms of nutrients, but *greatly* improves water retention/drainage, aeration, and general happiness of plants.

[Jim Lewis]

is

well-accepted.

to improve

Yes. Look for "Turface" or "TerraGreen" or "MuleMix." All are so-called, soil conditioners and consist of high-fired clay granules. They will NOT break down and serve to let air into the soil. They're essentially inorganic, so you sill will have to mix compost in, but compost doesn't really help heavy clays breathe. You can buy those soil conditioners at feed and fertilizer stores (Like Grayco in my area). They also are used as surfaces for tracks and baseball infields, so the groundskeeper at the local high school or college athletic department may be able to help you find a different source.

Wal-Mart sells something similar (Schult's Soil Conditioner, or something like that), but it comes in tiny -- VASTLY overpriced -- bags that would be useless for your purposes. The names listed above come in 40-60 pound bags (about $7.00 per bag, last time I bought some -- I use it as a component of bonsai soils).

[James]

Lotsa suggestions here so wouldn't it be a good idea to pose some of them to your county extention agent? He may have another approach as well.