Chrerry Tree Infested w/ Ants or Termites?

Page 1 of 2  
Hi, I've got a large cherry tree that's infested with either termites or carpenter ants. I noticed at the bottom of tree what appeared to be sawdust, cleaned it up and the next day it was back. Today I sprayed Bonide Termite and Carpenter Ant Killer into the two holes they were using and the critters poured out of the tree. They appear to have two parts to the body (part near the head is smaller than the part at the rear and fairly large head wiith good sized pinchers. The Bonide spray seems to work but I suspect they'll just burrow into the tree at a another location how do I permantely get rid of them?
Thanks,
Mike
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Sounds like carpenter ants. The dust is from their galleries. They control the environment inside the tree by limiting moisture. Too wet or too dry stalls the decay pathogen. In this sense ants are a benefit for the tree. They stay within boundaries set by the tree after wounding.
.

Ants are good guys. Leave them alone. Even if you have them in your house, the reason would be rotten wood in your house. They stall the rot process in building materials as well.
termites also respect boundaries set by the tree. If you are in the south many times the problem which caused the termites to be present was flush cut pruning.
Your description does not sound like ants.
As far as your use of pesticides, user beware.
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman/spring.html the web site is down right now. try later or go here
http://www.beyondpesticides.org /
You really need to let a professional diagnose your issue rather than applying toxins and then asking questions.
Anyway, the cause of the issue with the presence or organisms is wounds to the tree. Even termites follow wounds and stay in chemically altered wood from the wound.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I forgot to sign what I wrote:
Sincerely, John A. Keslick, Jr. Arborist http://home.ccil.org/~treeman and www.treedictionary.com Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology. Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
What I was trying to say is that you
1. Diagnose 2. Treat 3. Access
The problem you made was you treated, now you are trying to diagnose.
Sincerely, John A. Keslick, Jr. Consulting Arborist http://home.ccil.org/~treeman and www.treedictionary.com Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology. Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
More important than the presence of organisms are the following. If you have addressed these issues you should be in good shape.
Many tree problems are associated with the following: They are Case Sensitive.
Troubles in the Rhizosphere http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html
Unhealthy Trees from the Nursery / Improper Planting http://home.ccil.org/~treeman/sub1.html and Look up "Tree Planting" http://www.treedictionary.com
Improper Mulching - http://home.ccil.org/~treeman/sub3.html and http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/M/ Look up "Mulch"
Improper Pruning http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/tree_pruning
Improper Fertilization (See A Touch of Chemistry) http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/CHEM.html
Tree Farming and Related Problems http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/SOUND /
Sincerely, John A. Keslick, Jr. Arborist http://home.ccil.org/~treeman and www.treedictionary.com Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology. Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
symplastless wrote:

I 100% agree in leaving ants alone if at all possible. I am skeptical about your statement implying that they only come into your house if there is rotting wood. I'm also skeptical that they halt the rotting process. How does the formic acid ants exude do that? I'd think it further breaks down the lignite in the wood - that is ants destroy wood rather than make it last longer.
Near me there is an ancient Indian city named by the whites Chaco Canyon. Abandoned by Indians due to changed climate (dried out) you can go there and find large pieces of wood which were trees over 700 years ago. The ranger there told me that the wood still exists because there are no ants (no water) to digest the wood. Was that information wrong?
-paul
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ants stall decay by limiting moisture.
--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
symplastless wrote:

Thinking you are meaning carpenter ants here but even then 85%-90% of all carpenter ant work I do in homes has nothing to do with wood at all much less wet/rotting wood and the c-ant nest that I find around wood is more so for the hollow void rather than it being wet. (hollow core doors & crown molding are usually the culprits)
Lar
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Mike wrote:

tree...they are not killing your tree but excavating in already diseased/rotted wood. They are just a symptom of another issue.
Lar
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

It gets worse in that I sprayed Bonide Termite and Carpenter Ant Killer into an opening in the tree which caused the ants to rpidly exit the tree and I suspect the carpenter ants won't ever return to inside the tree because of the spray and the spray may hurt the tree. Is it possible that fungus could be in the tree? Fungus is on the outside of the tree.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Mike wrote:

The Bonide Termite and Carpenter Ant Killer looks to be a couple of pyrethroids, which breaks down so ants probably could be back in within a couple of months, hard to say. Fungi infected wood probably was what gave the ants a place to nest to begin with. The fungus will be in parts of the wood that are staying wet, not sure if there any way to avoid such areas in any large tree.
Lar
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Why not just cut the tree down and be done with the ants?
--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

weeks then burn it then plow the ground.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

next time I'll check w/ this group before doing anything. I hope the tree survives and the ants return to their home.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Healthy trees do not have ants. Trees that are compromised in some way have ants. If you were any kind of an arborist you'd know that.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In fact many healthy trees have ants. An understanding of compartmentalization or decay in trees is a must. Trees wall off areas and within the areas the wood is symplastless. A new tree grows around the old tree every year. You really need to understand CODIT which means compartmentalization of decay in trees, to understand the role of ants. Do you also proclaim that a healthy tree has no relationship with fungus as well? Why without mycorrhizae many trees would not maintain a symplast. Ants and trees have been around long before us and will remain an associate of trees when we are long gone. Ants stay the decay pathogen which can lead to a healthy tree. I mean healthy in a mechanical manner as well as a biological manner.
Look at this. http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/HTMLFILES/ants-cavities.html
Do you think we need to kill Pileated wood peckers?
No, ants and trees and wood peckers get along fine.
--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I give up. If you think trees with decay, fungus and ants are healthy then you must be right.....ya.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

He is correct: not all fungal activity is detrimental to trees. The relationship between trees and fungii is complex. Before insulting the integrity of someone, perhaps you should enhance your own study, then you would be in a position to argue the point with more grace and lucidity. My practical experience (in south east of England) with Cherry trees is they are poor compartmentalisers, and are notorious for rot when wounded. Cannot say anything about ants really, as I know little. Can say though, I live in a house built in 1867, which was left unattended for years ( became quite decrepit), was revamped, then not looked after much, recently two different types of ants became visible, red and black (with wings) both left small mounds of the substance in which they were staying (brick, plaster etc.). It is entirely possible, and probable that there is rotten wood in the house.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Treelady
As far as my DVD source goes, the ants stall decay or rot in building products as well. The problem, in understanding the process is that the research started with the product and not the trees. The good doctor did his studies starting with the trees. When a wound takes place on the trunk, a barrier zone is formed. The wood to the inside of that barrier zone is chemically altered. It may not be noticable by the naked I but can be detected with a SHIGOMETER. Termites and ants know, we do not know how they know, that the wood is altered. That is the fisrt plave ants and termites will go. Now the termites will eat the wood after they predigest it . The ants do not eat wood they just push it out of their galleries. The galleries control the environment inside the tree or building product. Too wet or too dry will stall the decay pathogen. The galliers stall further rot in trees and building products. It was verbally mentioned many times that if it was not for the ants many trees would not be standing. We have large woodpeckers here and they go after the ants. As far as fungi, bacteria and others, here are some pithy points. 175. Less than 1% of the insects and fungi are harmful to humans. Think about that when you use a product that kills everything. We believe the fungi gain nutrients not only from the tree, but from dead leaves and wood. This is why composted leaves and wood as mulch is so very important for healthy trees.
--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.