Cats should be spayed/neutered and kept indoors...

in order to protect the birds feeding in the garden.
--

J. Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
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Which birds?
If you are talking about starlings and house finches, you are nuts.
Those alien invader pests from Europe have bullied out most of the native bird species and have done far more damage than cats ever could.
in order to protect the birds feeding in the garden. -- J. Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP τΏτ - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business τΏτ - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal
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And don't forget the sparrows that hurt our bluebird population. If my cat ever made it outdoors to kill a few of these species, I'd consider it poetic justice, being that domestic cats are sort of "man-made," in a sense. (I vehemently support the "spay" comment, though.)

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Cats are the only animal who chose domestication. It started in Egypt. The cats would recognize around the huge silo of corn or grain, and that in these silo's were plenty of mice and rats. Cats came into the situation and adopted people. No other animal has ever intentionally domesticated like the now named, common house cat.

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Strictly speaking, cats aren't "domesticated", meaning substantially changed from their wild counterparts and bred for the benefit of man. While hundreds (thousands?) of dog breeds are quite different from wolves in physiology and habit, cats are more "tamed" than "domesticated." Simply going where the food is doesn't imply domestication. :-)
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The kittenishness or infantilism of adult cats makes them very different from any wild cat. The desert sand cat & the Afghan mountain cat look exactly like domestic cats, but even if hand-raised are largely unmanageable (the domestic cat is likely descended from these two). A southeast asian fisher cat, or south american jagurundi, though small enough to live loose in the house like a domestic cat, cannot be so kept, for they will never cease to be nervous in captivity & if loose in the house like a domestic cat, hooboy, they'd hide constantly & only sneak out from behind the kitchen stove at night to destroy all your stuff. A bobcat can easily crossbreed with a domestic cat & the resulting half-bobcat can be a perfectly reasonable housecat, but the bobcat itself cannot. So really, a few thousand years of domestication has changed them dramatically.
That they can become feral in a trice is not unique among domestic breeds & no indication they are unchanged. Horses & burrows also revert to the wild with great ease. Domestic dogs can form very dangerous feral packs. A good argument could be made for horses not being substantially different from the wild animals first domesticated above the Black Sea; & the fully domesticated Indian elephant is also unchanged from the wild forest elephants they once were, & could still live on their own except the forests they require no longer exist. And the camel, domesticated long before horses or cattle, is no different than a wild camel. Pigs go feral with spectacular ease even though domestic strains bare little physical resemblance to their wild cousins. But cats & dogs can live IN the house because of a infantalism such as makes them permanant human "child substitutes"; to impose that level of infantalism on any of the wild cats would fail utterly & result in an awful house pet, whereas infantalism imposed on wild canines, though possible, never makes them save toward anyone outside their "pack" even if their pack is a family of humans. Domesticated cats & dogs & cattle are very changed compared to their wild counterparts, more than for horses, asses, ducks, chickens, rabbits, gerbils, ferrets, elephants, or pigs.
The measurement for domesticated pets would be degree of infantalism that does not exist in wild counterparts. Coyotes outgrow puppyish dependence and playfulness in ways that labrador retrievers do not. So too kittenishness of mature domestic cats cannot be achieved with a fisher cat or oscelot or desert sand cat, all of which make splendid pets until they are no longer kittens, then are holy terrors inappropriate for mingling with people. Yet even a second generation feral cat can be domesticated with just a little bit of patience, because that capacity for permanent infantilism has been selectively bred into them for thousands of years.
-paghat the ratgirl
--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
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On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:58:46 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@netscapeSPAM-ME-NOT.net (paghat) wrote:

<snip>
My information was not that all wild cats can be tamed, but that "domestic/house/barn/pet/companion animal" cats have not undergone any substantial genetic change to re-tool them for human use and benefit. While it is true that certain physical characteristics have been encouraged (Siamese coloring, short/no/curly hair, no tails, and those awful deformed short-legged creatures) the "good mouser" mother doesn't necessarily produce "good mouser" kittens. Nor have cats been trained or bred to, um, dust under the bed, chase mice and not birds, or be particularly good to eat. Infantilism in adults is scarcely evidence of domestication.
It is we humans who have been "domesticated" to the service of the cat. :-)
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I would argue that urban sprawl has done far more damage to native species of all kinds than every cat on the planet. If you restore your gardens back to their native habit, the native species definitely show up and horn out the invaders.
I never allowed my cats out, alone. Since neighbors around here do, from time to time allow their cats out, I have put up a cheap way to keep them out. On the top of the fence I nailed some of that cheap border wire fencing found at cheapo stores. The tines you stick in the ground I face upward, and bend those to face outside the fence. No cat can get up and around that. At the bottom I lay my rose trimmings where we hardly use the service gates, and where the main gate is, I keep it tightly fitted using stepping stones. Barely a mouse can get through that.
Problem solved.

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But why should you have to go to all that trouble?
Graham
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Because she doesn't want animals getting into her yard? Same as anyone else wanting to keep animals out should do.
Just make owning ANY animal within city limits illegal and pay $5.00 a head for any wild animal pelts brought into the pound. A few years of that and you'd all be happy, eh?
Dumbasses.
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I am never happy when pe(l)ts are brought to the pound. I adore animals. That's why I use a barrier method, unlike my neighbor who was arrested a few years back for putting out a substance cats will drink and die. Same dick who traps neighbors cats and lets them loose far from home.
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The owner of the cat he trapped and released will "bash his head in..." if he ever sees him off his property. The piece of shit who trapped the cat is a person nobody likes.
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It was not trouble. It took a grand total of one hour of my entire life. I'd prefer to spend an hour being part of the solution than a minute as part of the problem. People will never change. Cats are not aware they are doing anything wrong. So, to end my own angst, I did what I did and so far I've not had a problem with cats or anything else. My wish is for it to stay like that, but should it not stay like that, I will figure out another solution.
I don't "have" to do anything. I do it because it's now done. I have no other wisdom on it.
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Hope all you want. I have no kids. Don't want them, either. Don't really care for them enough to have them. I love my nieces, but they go home.
V
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On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:57:59 GMT, "Cereoid-UR12-"

I can't find this msg nohow.
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Interesting, it's the same asshole rational your cactus buddies use to collect plants.
On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:57:59 GMT, "Cereoid-UR12-"

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Watch out Tomski, the word is that Hermine the tattooed lady has the hots for you!!!!
Maybe you are the one who has been getting too much asshole rational and that is why you are such a hemorrhoid, you clueless Bugsy Bugger!!!!!

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in order to protect the birds feeding in the garden.
And your point would be...?
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