On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 11:16:57 -0500, "symplastless"
Sorry, mcorrhizae is autonomous of the tree. It exists without trees.
Trees are not the only plant which depends on mychorrizae. I can buy
mychorrizae innoculant online. It is not attached to any tree I know
of. Fungal mats exist without the presence of trees. C'mon, you have
got to be kidding me. You actually think mychorrizae is made up of
tree root AND fungus? It's not.
You cannot innoculate with an organ.
It is not attached to any tree I know
Maybe you better define what mycorrhizae is in your words. It is a Greek
word meaning -
mycor - fungus rhiza - root. It is an composite structure made up of plant
roots (most trees) and fungi. Is it fungi or root? YES!
No, you incoculate with the fungus that produces the organ. Why are
you being so picky about this?
Why don't you try reading that yourself, but this time read the whole
thing and not just the first sentence. It explains how such
If you object to the nomenclature commonly used, "Mycorrhizal
Inoculant", then would you be so kind as to first suggest an equally
succinct alternative and then take the matter up with the producers of
such products or the government or someone else who has the power to
change that nomenclature instead of continuing to harangue a bunch of
people who don't have any control over it?
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 20:05:10 -0500, "symplastless"
While it is symbiotic, it is NOT NOT NOT a tree root. Not today, not
tomorrow, not yesterday NOT. Fungi are in a class of their own, not
plant, not animal. Mycorrhizae does not, repeat, does not depend on a
tree to exist. It is not part of the tree. It is not part of the
root. There are many types of this fungi, I am familiar with and have
used and will use VAM Mycorrhizae. Not all plants need this or
benefit by this type of fungi. Certainly conifers and many trees,
roses, blueberries and a list of other plants which notoriously have
weak root systems.
And do yourself and everyone else a favor; when directing people to
the scientific evidence, try to refrain from using your own website to
base your debate on. It's a bit nonsensicle.
The fungi themselves, growing alone, are not called "mycorrhizae".
VAM mycorrhizae are produced by any of about 200 fungi belonging to
the genus Glomeromycota when they grown on or in or in sufficiently
close proximity to tree roots. A phylogenetic tree for that genus can
be found at http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~schuessler/amphylo /. Note
that none of the species is called "mycorrhizae".
If there's no fungus then there are no mycorrhizae. If there is no
tree there are no mycorrhize. It's when you have _both_ that
Not from my understanding. I just found this list of plants which form
endomycorrhizae. Please do not quote me on the accuracy of the list. Just
Acacia, Agapanthus, Ailanthus, Alder, Alfalfa, Almond, Apple, Apricot,
Artichoke, Ash, Asparagus, Avocado, Bamboo, Banana, Basil, Bayberry, Bean,
Begonia, Black Locust, Blackberry, Box Elder, Boxwood, Buckeye, Bulbs (all),
Burning Bush, Cacao, Cactus, Camellia, Carrot, Cassava, Catalpa, Ceanothus,
Celery, Cherry, Chokeberry, Chrysanthemum, Citrus (all), Clover, Coconut,
Coffee, Coral Tree, Corn, Cotton, Cottonwood, Crabapple, Cryptomeria,
Cucumber, Currant, Cypress, Dogwood, Eggplant, Elm, Euonymus, Fern, Fescue,
Fig, Forsythia, Fountain Grass, Fuschia, Gardenia, Garlic, Geranium, Ginko,
Grapes (all), Grass, Gum, Hackberry, Hawthorne, Hibiscus, Holly,
Hophornbeam, Hornbeam, Horsechestnut, Impatiens, Jojoba, Juniper, Kiwi,
Leek, Lettuce, Lily, Locust, London, Magnolia, Mahogany, Mahonia, Mango,
Maples (all), Marigold, Melons (all), Mesquite, Millet, Mimosa, Morning
Glory, Mulberry, Monkeypod, Nasturtium, Okra, Olive, Onion, Pacific Yew,
Palms (all), Palmetto, Pampas Grass, Papaya, Paulownia, Passion Fruit, Paw
Paw, Pea, Peach, Peanut, Pear, Pecan, Pepper, Pistachio, Persimmon,
Pittosporum, Plum, Poinsettia, Potato, Poplar, Raintree, Raphiolepis,
Raspberry, Redbud, Redwood, Rice, Rose, Russian Olive, Ryegrass, Sagebrush,
Sassafras, Serviceberry, Sourwood, Soybean, Squash (all), Strawberry, Sudan
Grass, Sugar Cane, Sumac, Sunflower, Sweet Gum, Sweet Potato, Sycamore, Tea,
Tobacco, Tomato, Tree-of-heaven, Tupelo, Walnut, Wheat, Yam, Yellow Poplar,
Better said, without the plant root tissues, or without the fungus tissues
you cannot have a mycorrhiza. Again the word mycorrhiza is Greek. "mycor"
meaning fungi. "rhiza" meaning root. It is a composite organ made up of
plant root tissues and fungi tissues. Is it root or fungus? The answer is
yes. People don't like that kind of question.
The same site had a list of plants that do not respond to endo or ecto.
They had pine and oak on the list. Anytime I dug pine or oak roots I found
ectomycorrhizae. So please do not quote that list.
It is a root fungus. A composit organ, its an organ, made up of fungus
tissue and root tissue. Is it fungus or root? YES!
Not today, not
So you are saying that you never dug mycorrhizae. Start looking. They are
there. If you want root hairs go to a hew bush. If you want
ectomycorrhizae go to a beech. You have to dig roots and you have to look.
Or you will never see.
There are many types of this fungi, I am familiar with and have
Until you dig mycorrhizae you should really reframe from such claims.
Scientific research. get a shovel and go look!!!! They are there!!!!!
On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 12:28:34 -0500, "symplastless"
I will say it again. A tree root is NOT mycorrhizae. They are two
separate things, brought together via capillary water as a route and
in a symbiotic expedition perform a valuable function to any plant
which is susceptible to this formation. IT does not exist on it's
As for digging; I don't know how old you are, but I've been digging
in the dirt since I have been a child. I worked as a grower
professionally for some years at both huge commercial, two million
sq/ft under glass, to as small as five thousand sq/ft under glass. I
think I have an understanding of this fungi, not a single fungus, as
you call it.
Great, please show me some of your pictures of mycorrhizae you have dug.
You sound confused? A fungus infects a non-woody root of a tree and a
mycorrhiza forms. This is an infection many trees rely on to bring in
phosphates. They are common in, on and near large woody material as it
decomposes. It is a organ which is a composite structure made up of both
root tissue and fungus tissue. You may be speaking of something else.
There are organs under water under ice in New Hampshire. They may be called
Oomycorrhizae. Is that what you mean? Do you have a web site with your
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:50:46 -0500, "symplastless"
No John, I do not have a website with pictures of fungi I've dug, NOR
will I ever attempt to take any photos for you again. I proved you
wrong in my last batch of photo's and you never acknowledged them at
all, while telling me you'd place them on the front page of your
website if they were properly cut.
So, I am fully aware of actinomycetes in compost piles, it somehow got
into my breast and gave me an infection a few years ago which almost
caused me a mastectomy. You are not reading my posts, you are limited
and it is obvious to me.
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:41:02 -0500, Johnny Borborigmi
What part of my post which clearly said to keep them in as much
humidity as possible did I not make clear? I stand by my post too.
Balanced fertilizer if not the proper ratio of NPK for orchids. You
are not correct.
Oh, so you really are not feeding the plant. Just applying N-P-K. BTW
there are 14 other essential elements. Some more important than others in
different amounts for different plants. 14 From the soil.
They are C; H; N; O; P; K; S; Mg; Ni; Fe; Ca; Zn; Mo; Mn; B; Cl; Cu
I guess that the orchid must be an autotroph. Autotrophs manufacture their
own food and we do not feed them. That is the case for most plants. I say
most because of exceptions like Ghost Flowers. They have no chlorophyll to
trap sunlight energy and manufacture food. They are more like a
heterotroph. Humans are heterotrophs. The chemical companies trick you to
believing their product is food.
Food is a substance that provides and energy source, mostly. Nutrient is a
substance that provides an energy source, elements, and other substances
essential for life, in types and amounts that can provide a healthy life.
Fertilizer is a substance that provides elements, as salts mostly, or in
bonded forms, that require microorganisms to alter to forms that can be
absorbed or taken in by plants. They are not absorbing in the sense of a
Bounty paper towel.
Ok, let me break out the "S" word - Stupid. In the USA people have the
right to be stupid. They can say and write stupid things. E.g., Fertilizer
is food, elements are nutrients, plants absorb nutrients, we have feeder
roots, wood is dead, heartrot explains trees response to wounding, wound
dressing stops rot, plant trees deep, put mulch on the trunk of trees and
good and deep, tree wrap prevents sunscald and frost cracks, stake trees
with wire in a hose, wood is dead. Heartrot explains decay. Flush cuts are
correct. Wound dressings stop rot. Nature is balanced. Fertilizer is food.
Wetwood is bad. Planting deeply is good. Rot is a major cause of failure.
Water causes decay. Insects and diseases are the major causes of tree
problems. There are at least a hundred more.
Myself, I am studying Advanced Tree Biology. In Advanced Tree Biology we
reframe from loose, sloppy terms. Why, for a better understanding how the
system works. If I see a fellow is so far off tract to call fertilizer
plant food, I have enough care, concern, time and passion to help that
person better understand plants. Again, some people fight to be stupid and
spread it to others. Mostly product pushers are to blame for the continued
I am very thankful that someone took the time to explain to me things like
fertilizers are not tree food.
Sorry for caring!
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