Cannas and lilies

Page 1 of 2  
I will be moving to our new house soon and want to take my cannas and lilies with me. They are still blooming and I wonder if I cant just cut them back and when the time comes dig up the bulbs. Would this work?
TIA
Cindy
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Where do you live, and exactly when are you moving?

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
My mistake :) I live in zone 6-7 and am moving in the same zone.
Cindy

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Well...you know they want to be moved just before the frost, so they have as much time as possible to grow. I'd wait till the last minute, and then dig them up with as much soil as possible, even if that means buying the small size boxes from U-Haul and lining them with trash bags. Then, get them back in the ground before working on the house, which, as you know, is only 10% as important as the garden and can go to hell for years without mattering much. :-)

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Canna's are not usually hardy in this zone range.
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 16:43:02 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Right....that's why we dig them up. That also lets the air out of Warren's comments. They may be part of the landscape when they're growing, but they have a slim chance of living through the winter, unless you have exactly the right mini-climate right by the foundation of the house. Even so...not likely.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Thanks for all the help and comments. I should mention that the old house will be empty when being shown as we are moving out prior to be going on the market. So if I pull them, no problem. As for the cannas. They seem to do well right where they are for the last 3-4 years. Never been dug up, just mulched well before frost.
Cindy

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Storm windows count as fixtures, too, even though they're removed from the windows during certain seasons.
If it's the season that the storm windows aren't on the house, and they're not stored on the property, the buyer should ask, but even if they don't, they could still be entitled to the missing storm windows as they are legally part of the real estate. If it's the season that the lily are dug-up, and not in place, the buyer may still be entitled to the bulbs just like the storm windows that aren't currently in place.
The OP has stated that they're going to be taking the bulbs before putting the house on the market. But if the buyers are buying the house during the season that the bulbs would normally be out of the ground, there is still the possibility that they will be considered exactly like the storm windows that aren't up in the off-season -- especially if there is an empty space in the landscaping where the bulbs came from.
However, if some other landscaping replaces the missing lilies, you're into a situation similar to a remodel. Just as a buyer isn't entitled to storm windows replaced by new storm windows in a remodel, they wouldn't be entitled to the old landscaping (the bulbs) when new landscaping replaces them. (This, of course, would only apply to a situation in which the action was taken before putting the house on the market.)
If the lilies are missing, and it's not the season that they would normally be dug-up, then the OP could be safer in not replacing them with something else, but I wouldn't say it's a slam-dunk. I can still imagine some valid arguments the buyer could make in some convulsed situations. The deciding factor in those cases may be the arguments made in defense of the missing lilies, so it may still be advisable to put something else in that empty space.
Would a buyer make a stink about missing lilies bulbs that weren't in the ground when they actually bought the house? Probably not. But they might be a gardening nut, and they might have knowledge that lilies have always been in those empty spots. Or if they have a big case of buyer's remorse they might include it on a "laundry list" of problems post-sale. But even if it's unlikely that they're raise the issue, it is such an easy thing to plant something in their place, or listing lilies (or lily bulbs) as a fixture that is being excluded from the sale just as people frequently list ornate chandeliers.
Why not do it right when doing it right is so simple? What's the incentive do not do the right thing?
--
Warren H.

==========
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Re: that last question, I'd say common sense. If the BBQ's out in the driveway when the realtor arrives with a couple of lookers, can it be considered part of the house? If the lookers aren't gardeners, and don't realize that in their particular climate, cannas come out of the ground in the winter, can they seriously expect to make an issue out of the plants? In this case, the "right thing" is to save the lives of the plants.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Doug Kanter wrote:

It depends on whether it's a built-in or a free standing BBQ. A free standing BBQ is furnature. Personal property. Not a fixture. Not part of the real property.
A built-in is a fixture, not matter how easily it can be removed. If a fixture is normally removed seasonally, then it's still a fixture even if it's not in place. It's not personal property. It's still part of the real property. A buyer should perform due dilligence to make sure that the missing fixture still exists, and will be left for them, but lack of due dilligence by the buyer doesn't necessarily take the seller off the hook.

I never said not to save the life of the plants. The "right thing" is to take down storm windows in the summer, too. But those actions do not affect whether the items are fixtures, and part of the real property. The "right thing" I'm referring to has to do with how you handle fixtures that will not be part of the sale of the real property.
Technically, if it's the season that the bulbs should be out of the ground, those bulbs are still part of the real property, and should be available to the buyer to replant at the correct time. If that's not the intention, and the seller wants to take the bulbs with them, they need to handle the situation just like any other fixture: Either replace the fixture with something else prior to putting the real property on the market, or specifically exclude the fixture from the sale by including that exclusion in the sales agreement.
--
Warren H.

==========
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Let me clarify one of my points.
I said, "Why not do the right thing?"
There are essentially three reasons: Accidential ommission, ignorance, or fraud. Accidental ommission and ignorance can save a layman from punitive damages, but if the issue is raised, they'd still have to take corrective action, or compensate the buyer. Any broker involved cannot plead ignorance about whether something is a fixture or not. They may be able to claim ignorance of your unilateral actions, but if they know you did something, even if you did it out of ignorance, their duty is to say something.
There also is a very real possiblity that the buyer may never realize that anything is wrong, or that they have a cause of action. But what if they do? Any broker that is aware of the situation, but gambles that the buyer won't realize what they're entitled to is acting unethically even if the buyer never realizes something is wrong.
The right thing is so simple. Either replace the fixture before putting the real property on the market, or exclude it from the sale. Taking either of these paths will resolve the issue completely. What is the incentive to knowingly not exclude a fixture you're planning on taking with you from the sale? The only incentive to not exclude the fixture from the sale is fraud. Accidental ommission, or ommisoin because of ignorance is not an incentive. Fraud is the only incentive. Are a few bulbs worth committing fraud?
What I'm asking is if you know that you're going to take a fixture with you, other than fraud, what other incentive is there to not do the right thing?
--
Warren H.

==========
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Based on this logic (and you KNOW I'm kidding), fake leaves should be glued to the trees if the buyer made the purchase offer before autumn.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Doug Kanter wrote:

I'll accept that you're kidding, but I don't get what you're saying at all.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Warren, your explanation of your viewpoint is legally and logically beautiful, and it sounds like you're either a lawyer or an experienced realtor. But, even the law allows for the fact that logic doesn't jive with reality. If we're talking about a climate like mine, where cannas are virtually guaranteed to die if left in the ground through the winter, you're saying that they should be left in the ground. Or, maybe I should dig them up, put them in a box, and give them to the buyers with a photograph of their previous location, and planting instructions.
But, based on that logic, a buyer (albeit an intensely stupid one) could go to court and say that when they put in their purchase offer, in early September, there were leaves on the trees. However, when they finally took possession in mid-October, the trees were bare and they now want some sort of compensation. After all, those leaves were as much a part of the landscape as the cannas.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Doug Kanter wrote:

I am a Realtor (r).
But, even the law allows for the fact that logic doesn't jive with

I NEVER said any such thing. I never even implied or infered such a thing. In fact, I think I implied the oposite.
Leaving the cannas in the ground when they should have been lifted would be neglecting normal maintenance. You don't get to stop maintaining the property upon acceptance of an offer. You still have to mow the lawn. You still have to vaccuum the carpet. You still have to fix a roof that starts leaking. You're still the care taker of the property. Not lifting the bulbs when they should be lifted is neglecting your responsiblity to maintain the real property.

Just like storm windows, if you seasonally remove a fixture, the fixture should remain on the property. Whether you bother to give the new owner instructions is up to you. Plenty of homeowners have discovered that each storm window only fits over a specific window, and the previous owner left no instructions. It's not a very nice thing to do to the next owner, but it's not required that you're nice. It's only required that you not take fixtures with you unless you have an agreement to do so.

I'm not following why you think falling leaves has anything to do with the discussion.
The tree is a fixture. If you cut down, removed, or significantly damaged the tree, there's a problem. But I don't understand how that has anything to do with falling leaves. I don't follow how you can even twist the theory of what's real property and what's personal property around to something as odd as this. Your thought is definitely not following any kind of logic.
How did this become such a big deal? Plants are fixtures. Fixtures are part of real property. When you sell the real property, the fixtures go with the property. If a seller wants to remove a fixture, that needs to be part of the agreement with the buyer. The property and the fixtures need to be properly maintained by the seller between accepting an offer, and turning over possession after closing.
If maintain the plant involves lifting the bulbs, then that process continues regardless of what's happening with any sale of the property. The seller continues maintaining the property as long as they own the property. Once the buyer takes possession the buyer can do whatever they want with the landscape (within the laws and CC&R's). At that point they, the new owner, can dispose of any of the fixtures as they see fit.
There's nothing complex about this whole process. The problem comes when the seller doesn't recognize a fixture is a fixture. And plants, with the exception of the harvest from annual crops, are fixtures.
Remember to treat your cannas as fixtures. That is, if you intend to take them with you, it needs to be part of the agreement with the buyer. If you don't intend to take them with you, they need to be properly maintained. If that includes lifting them for the season, so be it. The loose bulbs are still fixtures just as storm windows are fixtures in the summer. Very simple.
--
Warren H.

==========
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I doubt that very much, but....oh well.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

When we sell our place I'm taking as much of the garden with me as possible. It's over-planted by most peoples' standards anyway & it'll still look like a jungle even if I take my favorite least replaceable perennials & half to two-thirds of the rhody collection (other big shrubs probably won't be moved as it'd be too hard & some of them might not survive uprooting, but rhodies are easy to move). The house is so big that it'll probably sell to a family that wants more lawn for children & a dog to play, & some of the gardens would be sacrified even if I left everything behind. But it'll be discussed with potential buyers so that nobody's unhappy with what happens.
We've only recently been giving these things consideration as we have a lot of equity in the house due to skyrocketing values, & we're thinking we could sell it & buy a serious country property & run a specialty nursery & have chickens & wander about naked on the land if we want, stuff that's hard to pull off on a city-suburban property. Plus my sweety wants to work for a certain super cool non-profit that's an hour away, & land is still relatively cheap halfway there. She works for a pretty good non-profit now but they're always struggling financially & the politics of the joint are getting un-fun. But maybe it's all pipedreaming & we'll stay right here.
-paghat the ratgirl
--
Get your Paghat the Ratgirl T-Shirt here:
http://www.paghat.com/giftshop.html
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
The running around naked thing is worth whatever effort and financial jiggering you have to do. My GF doesn't like living way out in the sticks, in a house that's completely shielded from the road by masses of shrubs and trees. Too far from some of what she likes in the city. But...the naked advantage....that's the main selling point. Her only problem occurred about 3 weeks back, after a major storm ripped through the area. While sunbathing, she was reminded that the electric company sometimes uses a helicopter to located downed power lines. :)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
paghat wrote:

Yep. It's that simple! That's all I'm saying. The buyer should be aware whenever a fixture isn't going to stay, and if it's planted in the ground (even only part of the year like a bulb or tuber that gets lifted), it's a fixture.
Your sales contract can simply state certain elements of the landscaping will be removed as per discussion. How well you document the discussion may depend on the buyer, although in the current state in most real estate markets, if you don't like the buyer, and have any hint that they're going to be litigious, you can reject their offer, and someone more reasonable will come along soon enough.
Still, someone's love can be undocumented, but their commitment may only be as good as the documentation that goes with it. ;)
--
Warren H.

==========
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Now I *really* think you're a lawyer! Squirrels move 20% of the bulbs around, or completely away from my property. Should I put a waver in the sales contract when I sell this place??? That's really catering to a stupid buyer.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.