Avoiding the dangers of Roundup

[JimR]

[sniip]

[snip]

?? Of course Roundup is a pesticide -- what's your point??

[Jim]

you most likely read the thread. my blood boiled then I felt much better when I read what Janet wrote. yep, I was glad I saw what Janet wrote.

in the past you yourself have written of your experiences with newcomers and oh how I could relate.

I hope Ann in Zone 6a will elaborate on her words "unsustainability of the pesticides" because I believe she actually understands.

[Jim]

technically you are correct and that is why the NCDA & CS uses the term on the license they issue to anyone passing their certification requirements.

in the reality of the application one would not apply a herbicide in order to kill insects. therefore classifications and categories are established so as to make labeling clear for specific use applications.

[enigma]

"Gil Faver" > RoundUp is a pesticide... nothing like making yourself

i like being a little more precise. if my (ought-to- return-to-the-city) neighbor came over & asked me not to put pesticide on the poison ivy, i'd agree with him. i'd still be putting RoundUp on it though... lee

[Jim]

[....]

I'm voting for the older methods on more total acres. then we can 'maybe' justify stopping the urbanization of rural america.

can we vote Chicago style?

[Charlie]

I'm curious why you crossposted this to misc.rural starting with your post to Janet. Your intro to this thread.

[e-mail]>

You surely don't have an agenda, do you, Jim?

[Jim]

on tomorrow's list or outline of things to be considered or done

1. arrive at job site
2. remove storm windows carefully so they don't fall apart
3. scrape surfaces with wire brush
4. scrape surfaces again with metal edge scraper
5. inspect window glazing and repair as necessary
6. obtain color samples from customer and confirm color selection
7. go to paint store
8. stop by coffee shop :)
9. go to hardware store to get tubes of caulk and a better caulk gun

[Charlie]

.....'twas ever thus. As I said, I know you.

[Billy]

You pin headed little twerp. Whose in advanced years? I used to be older but I'm much younger now, thank you very much. 'Twas the day when rapscallions like you would be taken out back of the wood shed.

Sounds like Number 1 has a head on his shoulders, your son must have married well.

Keep your left up, and keep counter punching. Don't they know who they are fightin'?

Hang in dawg,

[Charlie]

LOL!!

"Bring it on" ~GWB .....(I'm running for cover now! Where's that damned log????)

Wahhhhhh...you really are feeling yer oats tonite, you old stud!

Heh......couple old brawlers we be with likely some Scots blood in common....way, way back in the day.

Hangin' in and crawlin' back on.

You hang on a bit longer......break is coming. Time for tales round the fire and study and a bit more brawlin'!

Charlie

[John Bachman]

Thanks for the kind words Billy but you do not have it quite right. I am a small farmer who uses integrated pest management techniques. That is it. The only consulting I do is expressing opinions on the news group and answering questions put to me by friends and family.

I get dismayed when people immediately assume that the farmer who uses pesticides and evil being intent on destroying the earth. In my experience nothing could be further from the truth.

All of the farmers I meet at the numerous seminars and classes that we all intend to improve our knowledge and skills are very concerned with the proper application of controls, be they organic or chemical.

Notably, both types of farmers attend these seminars, which are usually run by the agricultural extension service, and exchange views. Often the seminar will occur at a farm which may be organic or not. Again both types of farmers attend and are interested in the techniques used on that farm.

Farmers are business people who make their living and provide for their families by farming. They are interested in the most economical methods of operation and surely want to avoid anything that would be detrimental to the continuing success of their enterprise. Excessive and misdirected use of any product is contrary to their goals so it does not happen except by accident and such accidents are usually quickly investigated resulting in corrective action.

These farmers are constantly on the lookout for techniques that will make them more efficient. Qualified labor is a scarce and therefore valuable commodity. The farmer spends the labor available to him as wisely as possible. He must because market pressures put a limit on the value of his products. That is how the free market system works and the farmer lives by those rules or goes under.

John

[enigma]

Charlie wrote in news: [e-mail]:

i doubt sincerely my use of glyphosphate, as method of last resort, against poison ivy (to which i have a violent allergy, plus the 'remedies' for said allergy give me hives worse than the PI) is going to affect your grandchildren. i do not spray the stuff (wasteful, ineffective). i cut the vines & paint the open wound. doesn't even faze the other weeds at the base of the tree. does a good job of killing the evil vines though. just cutting the vine kills the upper portion, but PI regrows readily from the roots. painting glyphosphate on the cut kills the roots. i do agree that spraying glyphosphate is a bad thing, and spraying PI doesn't do anything toward killing the stuff unless you get a windless, dry week in very early spring as the leaves are just budding (which never happens around here anyway). if you can prove to me that this method is causing glyphosphate drift into the soil/water, i'll look into another method. as it stands now though, the PI has to go, & this is the best option i can find. lee

[Elmo]

If you're conducting a GWOPI[1] then you can count me on as an ally who relies on the tactical application of CBW agents. My favorite is Ortho Brush-B-Gon (Triclopyr) applied in early Spring about the time that the multiflora rose begins to leaf out. One targeted application on the PI, MFR, and other assorted jagger bushes[2] does them in. I still have to avoid the dead vines because the urushiol retains its capability to cause pain and distress (as do the jaggers).

[1]Global War On Poison Ivy [2]Anything with thorns

[Larry Caldwell]

Glyphosate takes a variable amount of time to break down, depending mostly on temperature, but it binds immediately with any clay particles it comes into contact with, which inactivates it. The antidote for accidental glyphosate ingestion is Kaopectate, which contains kaolin clay. Even a slight murkiness in the water used to mix the spray will reduce or eliminate the effectiveness of glyphosate. Essentially, once it hits the ground, it's dead. It does not transport through the soil by water motion.

It is not legal to machine apply glyphosate within 50 feet of open water. Using a hand sprayer, you can get within 10 feet.

[Billy]

My error, and my apology for miss characterizing you but I still respect your knowledge and honesty. In your response about the use of "Round-up" you put in a very large "if". Personally, I hate these chemicals and that gives me a reflex reaction against them. You help me understand why a person may rationally wish to use them or not. It gives me balance, and I still hate them, but I respect your opinion.

I wish you luck because I don't believe it is a free market. It seems that today, for a farmer to survive, he must find a niche market that isn't worth the trouble for big agra.

Again my apologies for not listening more closely.

[Billy]

Dang, always did have a soft spot for you whippersnapper. Take care of your self and listen to your "lovely". A nice little brawl would be nice though. Which reminds me, what you doin' up so late for? No, don't respond, the lovey-poo is waiting for me too. Go to bed.

[Ann]

Not exactly. I've been fresh cut stump treating with Roundup for three years, mostly multiflora rose and Autumn Olive. I cut them off close to the ground and also use a paint scraper to scarify exposed roots, then brush on the Roundup. By the time I get to the end of a batch, I've carried enough soil into the container with the brush that the solution is seriously "murky", with some soil settled out on the bottom. I was concerned about this at first, but found it still was effective. So, while the glyphosate may have been adsorbed onto the surface of soil particles, it was not inactivated.