Asian disaster-off topic but necessary

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There are times when an 'off topic' topic is necessary. I feel this is one of those times. I sent the following message to the Premier of my province. Should you feel the same way I do then you will know what to do. These people need help and they need it now. Not tomorrow-now. Gary Fort Langley, BC Canada

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Feeling quite helpless on the other side of the planet, I've given $100.00 to Medicine Sans Frontieres (http://www.msf.org ) they already have Doctors, support staff, and medicine on the ground in Aceh. It's a great organization, in my opinion, with the vast majority of one's contribution going towards actual relief and very little for 'overhead'.
The American wing of this organization is 'Doctors Without Borders' (http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org /). They make online donations very easy, and of course it's tax deductible.
Dave

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"Doctors Without Borders" is the charity that we *always* give to, so we gave our usual New Years Eve dinner and drink money to them, and stayed home. They do good work. Folks should support them all the time, not just now, with the largest disaster in human memory going on.

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wrote:

I agree wholeheartedly about Doctors without Borders - a cause worth supporting.
However, the media has deluded far too many people that this was the "largest disaster in human memory". The list at www.disastercenter.com puts this one 35th in the 20th Century in terms of numbers killed. A big disaster, yes, but far from "the largest in human memory."
John

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No, it's not necessary. Post your bedwetting whiny crap elsewhere.
Maybe those idiots will finally install some detection equipment. Now that's necessary.
As for the lives lost, I think the (old Jay Leno) Doritos ad said it best- Don't worry, they'll make more.
P.S. Anyone else notice that it took just three days for someone to figure out a way to blame the US for it?
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John Thomas wrote:

As I understand it, the project is underway, but will not be active until sometime in 2005.
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On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:10:35 -0500, Chelsea Christenson

If you are referring to a tsunami detection system in the Indian Ocean I understand that there are no plans but it is being discussed now. The issue is that this is an expensive system to detect an event that has not occurred in recent history (until last Sunday).
Developing countries are not inclined to spend big sums to protect against such remote threats. It has nothing to do with intelligence. In fact, it is logical. Unfortunately, logic does not control natural events and thus disasters happen.
Hysterical demands "to do something" invariably result in a waste of scarce resources.
Similarly, there is no Atlantic Ocean system to protect the eastern US coast. There are no "big" fault zones in the Atlantic like those that exist in the Pacific, hence a reduced, but non-zero, tsunami threat. At least, that is what the scientists say. I expect that will also be subject to renewed debate.
I only hope that a thoughtful debate trumps the political pressure.
Sigh.
John
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I heard that the head of the Australian government is looking into funding this system (now).
--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
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John Bachman Wrote:

what i heard was a detection system would take 2 hours to come up wit a warning and since land masses in the indian ocean where much close together than in the pacific the wave would hit before or at about th same time as the warning could be issued....what i also heard was i you are ever at the coast and the sea suddenly goes out a very long wa for no apparent reason don't call your freinds and family over to com and look, instead run away very fast
-- Eyebright
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I have to agree. If they have any schooling at all I cant understand why they dont 1. teach about hazards like earthquakes, tsunami, fires, etc. 2. teach every child to swim. many of the people drowned because they couldnt swim well enough to a tree or something between waves. during waves nothing can be done. but I doubt it takes 2 hours. I heard that the warning goes out immediately when quakes over 5(?) are recorded. they dont wait for an actual tsunami to be seen. sorta like doppler radar showing "signature" triggers the alarm horns going off. Ingrid

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net / www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 13:49:37 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@wi.rr.xx.com wrote:

Yes, and after every terrorist attack we will teach them how to avoid terrorist attacks. And after every snow storm we will teach them to ski. And after every drought we will teach them how to find water. etc. ad nauseum.
After every disaster the second guessers beginning plying their skills. But the next disaster is one that they did not think about and the process repeats.

Such a warning system would quickly be perceived as chicken little and each subsequent warning would be ignored. Ever been in a mall when the fire alarm goes off?
The magnitude of the quake is not all telling. Earth quakes are of two types: side slippage and vertical. A side slipping quake of any magnitude will not create a tsunami. It takes vertical movement to produce the wave. Therefore, detecting a quake from afar, which is easy, is not sufficient. Sensors must be on the site to detect vertical movement. Those sensors do not exist in the Indian or Atlantic oceans.

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from snipped-for-privacy@wi.rr.xx.com contains these words:

Where and when was the above research into comparative swimming-skills of recently deceased persons conducted?
Janet
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Sometimes ancient wisdom is the best. I have read that one of the strongest "taboos" of the native Hawaiian culture involved the danger of turning one's back to the ocean. (I'm guessing they had a similar one about sleeping on or near the beach). Obviously observation had taught them valuable lessons which were inculcated in future generations via the mechanism of religion. (I imagine something similar dictated many of the Jewish dietary laws).
"> what i heard was a detection system would take 2 hours to come up with

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<< Obviously observation had taught them valuable lessons which were inculcated in future generations via the mechanism of religion. (I imagine something similar dictated many of the Jewish dietary laws). >><BR><BR>
Actually, not many of the kosher laws are known to stem from health observations. Ancient people did not have the statistical mechanisms available today. According to one theory, pigs are not kosher because they were worshipped by the Egyptians. Recent studies have found that dairy products & meat eaten together are harder to digest, but the kosher prohibition against eating milk with meat stems from a line in the Bible: "You shall not boil a kid in its mother's milk." This is said to be out of respect for the mother goat's feelings, since you just killed her baby. Poultry was not considered "meat" until a rabbinic decision in the Seventeenth Century. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "A tree never hits an automobile except in self defense." - Woody Allen
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as somebody who is a microbiologist and who started doing grad work in parasitology, kosher laws are right on with respect to what is wholesome and healthy food. I am sure it has nothing to do with scientific analysis and everything to do with how people learn what foods are edible and which arent, and a lot to do with the wisdom of "old wives" which are much maligned. Ingrid
snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Iris Cohen) wrote:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net / www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
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My neighbors, who are Old Believer Russians, have dietary laws that mimic Kosher laws. No shellfish. No animals without cloven hooves.
Non-Believers aren't allowed to touch their meat while they kill/butcher it and they pray when they kill an animal. (I know, because we sell most of our beef to Old Believers, doing ranch butchering.) Dogs aren't allowed to touch the meat, as they are unclean.
Dogs, cats, wolves, coyotes, bears, any animal with claws are "unclean" and can NOT be eaten except in dire emergencies, and then only certain parts of an unclean animal can be eaten. (Canidae: hind haunch.)
To pull this back on topic a bit, my neighbors, Ivan & Anna have a dozen children. They grow 15 tons (!) of spuds a year; raise 150 chickens to butcher; kill 4 or 5 moose, if they can; raise a couple of steers for the freezer; keep two milk cows; and Anna has a 20x30 greenhouse that she grows tomatos and cukes in. We live in Alaska. I don't know how many cabbages she grows, but it's a lot. _And_ she grows the prettiest flowers in the neighborhood in her front yard... *sigh* Oh, and she sews all of the clothing for her family. (Her and the girls do. She's got 3 daughters and 9 sons.)
To be fair, I have to say that Ivan & the boys put plenty of salmon and halibut in the freezers. Scallops, king crab, dungeness crab, clams aren't allowed. Too bad. That leaves more for me. *yum* We let the kids hunt the geese & ducks on our place in the fall.
Jan
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On 01 Jan 2005 13:45:11 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Iris Cohen) wrote:

Also (later, but important) the Greeks.
Another theory is that raising pigs forces compromises in your lifestyle. Pigs cannot be driven the way cattle, sheep, and goats are; if you are going to raise pigs, you are going to have to stay put. A pastoral people that takes to raising pigs will settle down and become too much like its farming neighbors.
--
Chris Green


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inculcated
available
The dietary laws are indeed cultic rather than health oriented. But another theory re. pigs is that boars were once sacred to Adonai (a Semitic plural that means "Plethora of Adonises" implying a dying-&-reborn fertility daemon akin to Tamuz/Damuzi). The Adonai/Adonis myth that survived among the Greeks is of Semitic origin & was adopted by the Greeks via Phoenicia & Assyria. Adonis was slain by a boar & dwelt one season with Persephone in the dark realm, one with Aphrodite above ground, & the rest of the year where he pleased. It's a close parallel to the Damuzi myth of the western Semitic tribes, among whom Abraham was born. So just as Atargatis worshippers would not eat fish which were sacred to Atargatis, so too Adonai worshippers would not eat pigs or boars which were sacred to Adonai. This theory has the stronger likelihood because Jews did not ban the eating of animals sacred to other deities or they wouldn't be able to eat any meat at all, but the theory that the pig was once sacred to Adonai has less appeal to practicing monotheists who deplore the possibility that Yahweh/Adonai has his origin in the same place as all other deities: human myth & imagination.
As a gardening topic, when Adonis died beneath the very pine tree that had long before given birth to him, transient windflowers or anemones sprang up from drops of his blood.
-paghat the ratgirl
--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
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wrote:

I read someplace that the reason being that because pigs are closely related to humans and can transmit the greatest number of pathogens because of this, but I have never read anything else that substantiated that point of view.
Em ----- When in trouble or in doubt, Run in circles, scream and shout.
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wrote:

You may have read that but I doubt that a practice that began in the middle ages has anything to do with pathogens.
JMHO
John
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