apple trees from seed

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On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:28:08 +1000, "David Hare-Scott"

I have five apple trees growing on my property (that I know of) that were obviously seeded from animal droppings, each produces different fruit in abundance but not worth eating by humans, all small, mishapen, dry, and extremely sour fruit... but the critters definitely enjoy partaking. I toss apple cores from perfectly good fruit off my back deck all the time, I've seen the deer eating their prizes. I'm positive that's how those freak apple trees come to grow on my property, probably from someone elses cores, I haven't been here long enough for my cores to have produced such large trees... and critters travel long distances to forage, those apple seeds could have come from miles away. I had a great uncle whose hobby was growing miniature landscapes is tiny pots, some in toothpaste caps, he would plant the seeds from fruit he bought, apple, pear, citrus, they grew and some even produced fruit, but none one would eat. You have better odds of winning the lottery than of planting apple trees from seed that produces edible fruit.
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It certainly doesn't accord with the seedling apples we sample each year. They've all been edible but some are truly superb.
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David Hare-Scott wrote:

I have seen it in several places.
Here is one I can remember in which they say the following:
There are some 18,000 apple trees in the U of M's breeding orchards. The university has one of the three largest apple breeding programs in the country.
For every 10,000 trees, he may only get one producing apples good enough for release.
The reference is as follows:
http://wcco.com/findingminnesota/u.apple.house.2.844104.html?detectflash ϊlse
Notably, they are talking about apples good enough for release, but I think this is an indication of the low success rate in growing decent apples from seed. However, these guys are experts and are picking out the best candidates to get even these meager results.
Sherwin
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how in the heck did Johnny Appleseed do it?
Donna in WA

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Legend.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Appleseed
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From same article:
Some even make the claim that the Rambo was "Johnny Appleseed's favorite variety", ignoring that he had religious objections to grafting and preferred wild apples to all named varieties. It appears most nurseries are calling the tree the "Johnny Appleseed" variety, rather than a Rambo. Unlike the mid-summer Rambo, the Johnny Appleseed variety ripens in September and is a baking/applesauce variety similar to an Albemarle Pippen.
So it appears, Johnny Appleseed did plant seeds, and was content to live with the results.
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snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net wrote:

You weren't supposed to notice that.
Bob
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wrote:

The results are what's subjective.

Now you're being silly... also mentions how all JA trees are now from grafts. Fact is that from other net sources much about JA is myth... and fact is that way back then (when horticulture was barely hocus pocus) apples were not eaten out of hand, they were used to make booze... any crappy fruit can be used to make booze.... the grape wine folks pay big bucks for is made from grapes unsuitable to be eaten out of hand.
http://americanhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/johnny_appleseed
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WRONG! crappy fruit makes crappy booze. but you love your Boone's Farm & wouldn't know good cider if it bit you in the ass lee
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wrote:

When I said booze I literally meant booze... any apples, the worst eating apples are great for making jack... doesn't even need to be all apples, add some currants for color... I once blew up a heavy duty 5 gallon stainless steel vacuum bottle making apple jack from dehy apples and raisins (forgot to crack the vent).
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You have a still, do you?
Karen
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On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 11:12:39 -0700 (PDT), against all advice,

You don't jack cider with a still. You use a freezer.
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wrote:

don't know why you'd think that. that's not how to make jack. distilled cider would be, um, apple vodka. lee
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I'm sure you know better, Lee. Fruit brandies are very popular in Europe, e.g. Apple (Calvados), Cherry (Kirsch), Grape (Cognac), Plums (Slivovitz), Pears (Poire William) u.s.w.
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DEM wrote:

Johnny Appleseed gathered much of his seeds from Cider Press locations. Yes, he planted many of these seeds.
However, the pioneers and farmers who used these apple trees did not grow them for eating out of hand. Almost all of them were turned into cider, which disguises a lot of problems, or they were used to feed the animals.
Sherwin
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If you know that, then you might also know that cider varieties are not the same as eating apples.
The impact of this on seedling apples down through the years because of cider apple varieties will be..........???? (NB: this is a rhetorical question)
Each time this subject comes up, you insist that seedling apples will not be worth eating.
Each time this subject comes up I similarly insist that the apples from seedling I access are quite edibvle and sometimes really superb eating.
Localised conditions can impact on progeny.
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FarmI wrote:

There are no hard fast rules about certain apples being better for cider. Some are specifically designated as cider apples and for the most part, they are not better for much else.

You obviously have different taste buds that most people. Quit encouraging people to grow apples from seeds. It wastes their time and is a big dissappointment after years of effort in raising them.
By the way, which varieties have you planted from seed that you think came out ok?
Sherwin

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No, we don't. We aren't the only ones who source the fruit from those seedling trees I've mentioned.
Quit

Quit insisting that apples grown from seeds are all worthless.

Read for comprehension. I 'access' seedling grown apple trees.
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sherwin dubren wrote:

Thanks
David
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On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 02:13:09 -0500, sherwin dubren

Perhaps you just got unlucky... sometimes the tags drop off and then reattached haphazardly... I've heard stories of privately owned nursery personel going around sabotaging the big box nursery stock by switching labels... don't know how true. But those big box plants come from the same wholesale nurserys that supply the more expensive privately owned nurseries. The only real benefit to buying fruit trees from the privately owned nurseries is that they will often have larger/older specimens that are burlap balled... the big box stores typically sell young saplings in pots... but the trees are the same quality. Fruit trees are the most inexpensive plants sold, they're not big moneymakers regardless, a potted four year old sapling will cost like $15, whereas a balled and burlapped six year old sapling will cost $30, twice as much but not any fortune. Retail nurseries don't even carry a large stock of fruit trees because the typical homeowner may occasionally buy a couple but most buy none.. those that don't get sold quickly become a total loss or once the planting time has passed they are given away at cost (50% off). Commercial orchard growers buy from the wholesalers and/or graft their own. I've purchased plants from privately owned nurseries that were mislabled too; gingko and holly come to mind, and many times veggies are mislabeled... I've learned to buy my veggie plants half from one nursery and half from another... too many times bell peppers turned out to be jalopeno, and beefsteak tomato turned out to be yellow roma. Even packets of seed can be mislabled, I've bought yellow crookneck seed that turned out to be green pattypan.
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