Apple tree from seed?

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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com says...

Me thinks thou doth project too much.
        Bill
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Vox Humana wrote:

God bless America!
I think it's a good thing that people have an opportunity to make stupid choices, don't you? Otherwise life would be kind of boring. Especially in the suburbs.
BTW, I like the pear tree that came up from a seed at my parent's house 10 or so years ago. It's about 30 feet tall (pears grow straight up like a poplar if they get a chance) and it's way too close to the garage. It is disease free and has hard little pears a little bigger than a walnut, and thorns like a honeylocust. It has a lot of character. :-) I think the pears would make good pickles.
Best regards, Bob
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I guess I'll never be able to sell this house with it's 23 fruit bearing trees and schrubs I've planted around it. I paid a hundred and fifty grand for it 10 years ago and did have to remove an ash tree <planted to close to a wall lifting it up>, an old plum that died of heart rot, a peach that had termites, a lemon tree that was in bad shape, oleander < don't like oleander>, 6 Hollywood Junipers, and 4 Italian Cypress. These had all died or had become heavily drought stressed because they hadn't been watered in 6 months. The house was a repo/fixer upper.
The lemon I took out came back as a sucker from one of the roots I missed. It's about 5 feet tall now and puts out some nice lemons. Yup, I just left that sucker grow just to see what it would do.
I sometimes wonder if that lemon tree started from some child of one of the previous owners sticking a seed in the ground.
The real estate agents that come up and knock on my door every week must be pulling my leg. They insist they can get $500,000 or more for my house if I'll let them carry the listing. Those real estate agents must be real kidders, going around door to door and ribbing people like that.
    God Bless the USA.
        Bill
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ultimately
purchase
Sure, I think it good that people have the opportunity to fail. Still, I am grateful when I pick up a plant at the nursery and have a trusted staff person tell me that the plant is likely to be inferior or become invasive. If they engage me in WHY I am buying the plant and help me sort out what would fulfill my needs, I see it as a service. I could go to Wal-Mart and take my chances. There are so many opportunities to make mistakes that when someone gives me advice that helps avoid failure, I see it as a benefit. I still might go with my first decision, but it will be an informed one.
One example of how stupid mistakes makes life more boring in the suburbs occurred in my neighborhood. The developer put in a large number of Bradford Pears and planted many trees far too close to the houses. The pears are all breaking in strong winds and the trees planted too close to the houses are being removed. Now the lots are being transformed into really boring landscapes. Some people don't believe in stump removal, so not only is there are loss of trees, but now stumps dot small lawns. Had someone stopped the person choosing the plant material and discussed alternatives to the Bradford pears and suggested that planting a tree three feet from the foundation is not a good idea, I think things would be less boring. Of course, reasonable people will disagree.
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Wait a minute. This guy is going to put lots of labor into caring for this tree, and 5 or more years down the road, he is going to wind up with a junky apple, unless of course you believe in miracles, but that's not where I would put my money or time. If he really wants a good tasting apple, let him shell out 15 or 20 bucks and buy something decent. I'm not going to even mention grafting, as I think he has not reached that point of involvement in growing apples.
Sherwin D.
Bill wrote:

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wrote:

and maybe have some fun doing it. Did you ever try something that you didn't know ahead of time how it would turn out?
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He's probably a virgin, also.
Janet
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How admirable! This garden forum is now recommending people to grow 'duds'. Maybe we can recommend that our local Botanic Garden or Extension Centers give courses on how to grow 'duds'?
Janet Baraclough wrote:

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No, it's recommending that gardening is an area where producing the perfect result is not the sole, or even the most important purpose. What matters is for a child who has eaten an apple and sprouted its pip, to feel the magical connection to the earth and his part in the cycle of growing things. For a child to learn that the simplest personal involvement is more satisfying than any item or experience made by someone else or bought from a shop. For him to learn that it's good to experiment and explore, that often, what is most worthwhile and entertaining is not uniform, not predictable, and far from perfect.
A neighbour of ours was an old man who has lived in his childhood home all his life. As a boy he grew an apple pip which is now a large espalier against the gable end of the house. It's beautiful in blossom, it's his creation and part of his history and memories. Those are far more important than the very trivial fact that he doesn't like the fruit. Birds do, and their annual feasting probably gives him more joy and delight than any apple he's ever tasted.
Janet.
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The message you are not giving this little boy is that there is better fruit available than what he can find in the supermarkets. He will have no motivation to get into gardening with the memory of that awful apple he bit into.
Sherwin D.
Janet Baraclough wrote:

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sherwindu wrote:

I disagree. As Joyce Kilmer said, "Only God can make a tree", and the little boy got a chance to help.
-Bob
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says...

If it wasn't for clairvoyants like yourself, this world would never amount to anything. Do you happen to have next weeks lottery numbers?
        Bill
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Bill, I am not trying to be a 'smart alec' or a 'mister know it all', but this father does have other easy choices. He can plant a stone fruit seed, which has a much better chance of coming out with decent tasting fruit. He can plant a raspberry shoot from one of his neighbor's bush. Giving the kid the false hope that he will get a tasty apple after nurturing his tree for many years will most likely disappoint him.
By the way, I am not clairvoyant about how these apples will turn out. Just ask any orchardist in the business if it is profitable to plant apples seeds. These people do look for new apples (sometimes called 'sports'), but they do it scientifically, mixing known varieties, and they do get a very low success ratio. Occasionally an amateur will 'stumble' on a chance mutation, but this rarely happens. There is little doubt that it is possible to grow an apple from a seed, but unlike vegetables, the result is much less than what is expected.
Sherwin D.
Bill wrote:

You seem to be a person that likes longshots. Just pick the most unlikely winner you can think of, and maybe you will strike it rich. Don't forget to share some of your winnings with me, for my free advice.

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says...

Yes, he does.

Now see, you can say there is a high probability that the fruit will be worthless. What you can't say is that there is a 100% certainty of it.
There's also a good chance that the seeding wouldn't survive the first winter.

See, you just said it happens. Yes rarely, but it does happen.

Maybe, maybe not. Do you think that maybe, by the time the tree is old enough to bear fruit, that the child will have grown enough to understand that it was a slim possibility that the fruit would be worthwhile in the end? And that the lesson to be learned is that without trying, you'll never know for sure?
Besides the name for a fruit tree that puts out crappy or no fruit is 'ornamental'.

        Bill
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Bill wrote:

Why don't you tell the kid to stand in front of a speeding car, so he can fully learn what it means to be runned over. He may survive the experience, but without trying, you'll never know for sure.

WRONG!
There are specific cultivars of trees like a flowering pear that fall under the classification of an ornamental tree, or one that never produces ANY fruit. As far as I know, there is no official name for a tree that puts out bad fruit or a fruit tree that fails to produce any fruit.

Sherwin D.
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says...

Straw man. Stick a fork in you, your done.

Ornamental trees that produce fruit: Mexican Fan Palm, California Fan Palm, Ginko Balboa, California Pepper Tree, Buckeyes, etc., etc.
Above varies from barely palatable, unpalatable, to poisonous, to no fruit < male Ginko Balboa >.

See above, you were wrong to begin with, you're wrong now. You may have the last word, if you feel the need. I'm done with this thread.
        Bill
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sherwindu wrote:

He just needs to set the kid's expectations for a nice big tree that will bear yucky apples eventually. The entire top of the tree can be replaced later by grafting/budding the scaffold branches later if they want to.
If he "wins the lottery" he might get a good apple and he can name it.
If the fruit is small and sour, it might make good jelly, pickles, and/or pies.
The tree is unlikely to survive the first year anyway, why not give it a chance?
If he has room for it, he can also plant a good semi-dwarf grafted tree and it will bear in about 3 years.
Bob
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<snip>
Maybe sooner, the three apple trees I have < semi-dwarf Ein Shiemer, Anna, Pink Lady > all produced apples a year after I planted them. They were about six feet tall when I purchased them.
        Bill
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zxcvbob wrote:

Why bother? If he wants to graft something, he can buy a rootstock and get several years headstart on getting his first apples.

Now the kid has to learn all about canning and baking.

If he takes care of it, the tree has a good chance of surviving the first year. That's why people take the trouble to plant stone fruits from seed. From a plant standpoint, this seed is very capable of reproducing another tree.

Why not do it right the first time.

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On 9/25/05 1:45 AM, in article snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net, "sherwindu"
Have you ever done anything for the sheer joy and adventure of it? Or is your life that regimented?
That pip is a gamble - it might produce good fruit, nice spring fragrance, or better yet an adult that loves gardening.
My grandfather was just slightly better off than the average subsistence farmer, but he encouraged me to plant a few pips along the way.
Cheryl
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