Ant infestation of Gardenia - how to get rid of them

All,

Just found this group - what a stroke of luck.

Have a nice sized gardenia in a pot - last week or so most all leaves yellowed and started falling off.

This after a light application of sulphur and fertilizer.

When collecting the fallen leaves for disposal - observed the soil was heavily infested with ants.

Called in to the local garden talk show and was advised to use Spinosad - had heard of this before however never used the product.

In researching the net - find this is an ingredient, rather than a named product one can purchase.

Recommended application method for ants is a drench - so need a water soluble form.

Has anyone used a Spinosad product on gardenias with success?

Any recommendations for a brand name product are greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Doug

Reply to
Douglas R. Hortvet, Jr.
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Do you have issues with personal pronouns and paragraphs?

I have used Monterey Garden Insect Spray with success against thrips and tomato hornworms. It's a concentrate that is made to be diluted in water.

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why do you think the ants are causing the problem with your gardenia? Unless they're herding aphids, I don't see how the ants would hurt the plant. Are the ants fire ants, is that why you want to get rid of them? Is there damage on the leaves that looks like insect damage?

And what kind of fertilizer did you use? If the leaf yellowing happened right after you fertilized, have you considered that the fertilizer is the issue? Have you checked your soil pH? How much water has the gardenia been getting?

Penelope

Reply to
Penelope

Thanks for the reply.

Issues with 'personal pronouns and paragraphs' - what does that mean?

'Issues' is such an overused and non-specifc term to be essentially meaningless, IMO.

When I called the local gardening guru's radio program - he acknowledge that ants can devastate a plants root system. Figure he knows more than I about such things.

There is another gardenia in a pot not 5' away and has no problem at all - both are watered the same, and received the same fertilizer and sulphur treatment.

The one with the problem had evidence of a blackness on the leaves - black sooty mold - that was removed with strong water spray.

Is it your experience that ants cannot damage a plants root system?

Want to do what is necessary to ensure the plant does not die - the blooms have been large and very pleasantly fragrant.

Thanks again.

Regards,

Doug

Penel>>

Reply to
Douglas R. Hortvet, Jr.

and started

For ants nesting in a flower pot, I use a drench of malathion. You can even mix it to 1/2 the strength recommended for aphids.

Yellowing of a gardenia can have several causes:

Feeding the plant when the soil is dry will result in burned roots when you next water it. The leaves will yellow, curl, and die.

Gardenias need perfect drainage. If the pot has no drain hole, the plant is drowning. Even if there is a drain hole, you could be over-watering. Gardenias need soil that is constantly moist but not soil that is soggy. If the soil is too wet, the plant yellows.

Gardenias need more than merely acid soil. They need some extra iron, a lack of which can cause yellowing. For iron, buy iron sulfate. Until the plant recovers a healthy green, however, use this sparingly (about 1 Tbs in a large pot once a month).

Gardenias also need more zinc than most plants (except for citrus). Instead of yellowing, a lack of zinc will more likely result in flower buds dropping without blooming. However, a severe lack zinc can cause yellow blotches on the leaves. Zinc sulfate seems hard to find these days, but some Ace Hardware stores carry it or can order it. Buy the smallest package you can get; it will last for years. A large pinch of zinc sulfate should be added to the pot monthly.

Adding sulfur (as you did) is good. However, you also need some soil bacteria to convert the sulfur slowly into sulfuric acid. A light topping of active compost will provide the necessary organisms.

Reply to
David E. Ross

PRECAUTIONARY STATEMENTS ENVIRONMENTAL HAZARDS This product is toxic to bees exposed to treatment for 3 hours following treatment. Do not apply this pesticide to blooming, pollen-shedding or nectar-producing parts of plants if bees may forage on the plants during this time period. This product is toxic to aquatic invertebrates

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largely or completely on information for spinosad: Material is highly toxic to aquatic invertebrates on an acute basis (LC50 or EC50 is between 0.1 and 1 mg/L). Material is moderately toxic to fish on an acute basis (LC50 is between 1 and 10 mg/L).

Acute contact LD50 in honeybee (apis mellifera) is ----> 0.05 micrograms = 0.00005 g/bee.

Reply to
Billy

It means you get an 'F' in English. We all make mistakes, I'm the Queen of the Run On sentence; but you make no effort to communicate pleasantly and effectively. Your writing makes you sound like a petulant 2 year old.

And if you claim that's true, you can avoid any and all of your issues. Got it. It would appear you approach problem solving in your garden the same way.

He acknowledged, as in, it wasn't his idea? As in, you had already decided that the ants were the problem, and pushed that idea? What else did he suggest might be the problem?

Were you planning on telling us what fertilizer you used or what form of sulphur?

And it never occurred to you that the mold was the key to what was wrong with your gardenia? Stop focusing on ants destroying the roots and consider the ant/aphid connection I suggested in my last post. If you have ants and sooty mold, you most likely have aphids. If there are no aphids, there is some kind of insect that produces honeydew feeding on your gardenia. I lean towards aphids being the problem, though, because I so often see ants herding and protecting aphids on plants around here.

It is my experience that ants do not damage roots. And lord knows I've had tons of ants through here. When I moved into this house fire ants were a terrible problem. Now there is a mega colony of Argentine ants in this area, so I've had to learn to live with ants. I try and be positive. The positive thing is that they wipe out fire ants and take out a lot of termites. See?

been large

A simple soap spray will kill aphids, or you can try Neem. Neem should also make the ants very unhappy, although it probably would not kill the whole mound.

Penelope

Reply to
Penelope

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 14:18:11 -0400, against all advice, something compelled Penelope , to say:

Ants, the Boarder Collie of the insect world.

Reply to
Steve Daniels

Ha! Yeah, that's about right.

Penelope

Reply to
Penelope

Yes, what was I thinking! Best to use the malathion suggested by another poster.

Penelope

Reply to
Penelope

Sure, why try to change cultural practices when you can spend money and poison the world.

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Reply to
Billy

Note to self: In the future, wear a cup-jock when posting questions ;O)

Reply to
Billy

and started

The ants may be a sign or result of another issue. Ants are not particularly harmful to Gardenias, but I'd put some Tero (or a Tero trap) near the pot. I found Tero to be very effective at killing out a colony because they feed the queen, plus you don't have insecticides to deal with. Ants dislike powdered chalk, cinnamon, and mint.

Reply to
Phisherman

yellowed and started

product one can

They can't dislike mint very much. I have a 12" pot of peppermint in my garden, sitting on a path that separates my lawn from my beds. It seems that I have to eradicate an ant nest from the pot almost every year. I have a similar problem with adjacent pots of oregano and tarragon. On the other hand, the ants don't seem to bother the sage, thyme, or bay, all of which are also in pots.

Ants themselves rarely harm plants. However, they protect aphids, scale, and a few other sucking insects. These are insects that suck the sap from a plant and then excrete a sugary syrup, on which the ant feed. The sucking insects can indeed damage a plant severely.

Reply to
David E. Ross

"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a brain." As YOU pointed out, there is no proof that the ants are causing the problem. The damn plant is in a pot. Pull it out, hose off the dirt and ants, and repot. You will (1) get a look at the roots to see if they are damaged, (2) have gotten rid of the ants, and will be able to determine if they were the problem, (3) not have gratuitously dumped more poison into the biosphere, (4) not enriched an environmentally toxic company.

What part of "nerve gas" don't you understand?

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Reply to
Billy

This from a man who goes into an arm waving, spittle-flecked and pharisaic spasm every time someone doesn't meet his screwball gardening standards.

Honestly Dude, shiny side out!

Penelope

Reply to
Penelope

I'm cool with the Scarecrow, too.

The ants are only indirectly the problem, but nothing I'm getting from this guy says he's much interested in anything but killing the ants. Spinosad products used as a soil drench are not going to kill any bees, and are not going to linger in the environment. Instead of running in circles and shrieking "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!" , why not encourage his fumbling efforts to use a less harmful product?

Sit down, wipe some of the spittle off the screen, and reset your sarcasm meter.

Penelope

Reply to
Penelope

Yeah, *best* to use malathion. Seems best to use nothing and let the critters have their way.....but hey, what do I know?

What part of pedantic **** don't you understand?

I know people get sick of my shit, but I sure get sick of this grammar granny spell check routine, and the multiple posting personalities.

Oh well, each of us shows our asses publicly one way or another, I suppose.

Charlie

Reply to
Charlie

Are you now or have you ever been an English teacher, or professional teacher of any subject?

That you claim my writing makes me 'sound like a petulant 2 year old.' from your first exposure to me in any way and are completely devoid of any knowledge of or about me would support the consideration that you are quick to make substantive and critical statements on topics of which you have no knowledge or awareness - of course that is not an admirable /desirable trait.

Did not intend to communicate unpleasantly or ineffectively - rather to provide the relevant information / observations in a concise and succinct manner.

Enough of the irrelevant and tangential sidebar - back to the gardening topics -

No - I advised the facts of my observation - and he commented that ants can devastate a root system.

Note he did not say they had - just that they can.

Fertilizer is a 12-10-4 composition for azaleas, gardenias, magnolias, and camellias.

Sulphur product is NitroPhos Soil Sulphur (90% sulphur)

No it did not.

The black areas on the leaves was a small percentage of the plant's total leaf area - although cannot quantify that numerically.

From the same garden radio program - black sooty mold was described as a nuisance and easily removed with strong water blasts - not something that would cause the leaves to yellow and fall off.

That is good news - that ants do not damage roots. Also good they eat termites.

have been large

Have Neem oil in my arsenal of garden products and will apply immediately.

One of my concerns is what to not apply to gardenias - I generally understand they are somewhat fragile and not that tolerant of 'abuse'.

Regards,

Doug

Reply to
Douglas R. Hortvet, Jr.

Please note my original question was: 'Has anyone used a Spinosad product on gardenias with success?'

Understood from the radio program's host that Spinosad is an organic product - a good thing.

Reading from the Dow AgroSciences site - 'Spinosad is derived through the fermentation of a naturally occurring organism. It uniquely combines the efficacy of synthetic products with the benefits of biological insect pest control products.'

Whether it kills ants or repels them was not the question.

Wanted to find out what experience others had to determine if the product can be used on gardenias without damaging / injuring the plant.

Regards,

Doug

Reply to
Douglas R. Hortvet, Jr.

Billy,

Thanks for the information.

Not knowing any more / better, would not have thought an organic product would not have been toxic to bees.

With a declining bee population - last thing I want to do is unwittingly further reduce their numbers.

In this instance - the product would be used as a drench, and therefore not provide for typical / traditional bee contact.

Regards,

Doug

Reply to
Douglas R. Hortvet, Jr.

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