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You've made that assertion multiple times. Who to believe, some random RWer on the internet or someone that uses thermometers?
Anyway, melt ice, what do you think happens to the water?
I don't have a model, and I haven't taken the measurements. So I'm not making any claims. But then I don't go around making contrary claims either.
Who to believe, a scientist or big business and their political party. Hmm, I have to think about it.
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On 03/11/2014 01:14 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
I presume you are talking about the polar ice caps.
Some of the studies I have looked at have compared the size of the ice caps to the amount of snow that falls on the ice cap versus how much falls on near by land masses. Has to do with weather patterns. If you like, I can look them up again for you.
Also, the polar ice pack shifts back and forth between Canada and Russia. You can see that on historical satellite pictures of the ice caps. I can see if I can dig some of them up for you too, if you like.
And the ice pack is not at historic recorded low either. I do believe that was sometime in the seventies. The earth did not end. Pacific atolls did not disappear. New York city did not get flooded. (That actually sounds ...). Back then, if I remember correctly, the scare mongers where carrying on about a new ice age.

It is which scientists to believe: who can demonstrate their case the best. Who invites and can stand up to criticism. Who, armed with the facts, can refute those that challenge them.
And throw a huge red flag at anyone who tried to use mind control to stop criticism of their work.
Always be suspicious of big business and ESPECIALLY big government. There is a lot of palm waxing to go around.
-T
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Mind control?
That sounds, well, how can I put this...nuts.
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On 03/11/2014 06:07 PM, Dan Espen wrote:

Hi Dan,
Political Correctness is a form of mind control. The intention is to keep you from listening to others of different viewpoints.
It is easy to spot. Folks practicing this will insult you if they don't like what you have to say, instead of engaging as gentleman in a functioning democratic society. I would go to say that since a democratic society required this kind of function and interchange of ideas, that Political Correctness is anti-democratic, not to mention really, really closed minded.
-T
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Ah, the old PC bugaboo.
Uhh, no. That's not mind control. How is disagreeing with someone mind control.
I doubt all of my opinions are politically correct and I feel no pressure at all.
To call that mind control is, what's that word again?
Maybe you, being a "GW denier" (can't see how that's an insult) feel some pressure, but what do you expect? You have no evidence of your own yet you feel you can spread your opinions as if they are fact. You know you are not a scientist, you have no models, I doubt you have any idea how much warming a given quantity of CO2 might induce, but you go around saying you've done research. Reading a bunch of web sites is nothing like research.
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On 03/11/2014 07:05 PM, Dan Espen wrote:

It is not.

Welcome to the dark side!

No pressure. "GW Denier" is meant to be denigrating.
The term "denier" is also religious term. It present their theory as an Axiom. A self-evident truth that requires no proof.

Here is how it works. If I have a pet theory, say the moon is made of green cheese, it is my job to convince you of it, not the other way around. I don't get in your face and tell you my theory is an Axiom and demand you prove otherwise.
So, even though I provided you with a lot of dissenting evidence, I don't actually have to. You are the one who has to prove it to me.
I can't help but notice that some on this forum just throw insults (don't got nothing) rather than pointing out what they think is in error. The ability to produce the greatest amount of snot does not make your pet theory correct.

I am an engineer
> you have no models, I doubt you have

Neither do the global warming proponents.
By the way, water vapor trumps CO2 as a greenhouse gas by miles and miles. But the elitists can't make any money off of that. And everything we burn, except hydrogen, give of water vapor.

When did I ever say that?

Actually reading research papers is a form of research.
I got to tell you as an engineer, I have developed a sense of smell when folks are bull s***ting me. And, I have to say their are red flags all over the place, especially their refusal to even look at the evidence to the contrary.
My gosh, a letter writing campaign to stop a newspaper from publishing a dissenting option! Can we say "totalitarian"? Closed minded? If these people had anything, they would just step forward and present their evidence.
Democracy is all about the free and open exchange of ideas.
-T
What?? The moon is not made out of Green Cheese? It is made out of Gouda Cheese? You Denier!
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On 03/11/2014 07:32 PM, Todd wrote:

Oooopps. Especially hydrogen. I was thinking CO2 when I was writing it. Hydrogen doesn't produce CO2.
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Hydrogen plus Oxygen doesn't produce water vapor?
I think you must have meant CO2.
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On 03/12/2014 06:36 AM, Dan Espen wrote:

Yes.
Good old Hydrogen Hydroxide! (Once saw that listed as a pollutant from cars. Like listing CO2 as a pollutant.)
-T
For those missing the inside chemistry joke, Hydrogen Hydroxide is HOH or H2O or water
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On 12/03/2014 5:40 AM, Todd wrote:

Cite?
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Fran Farmer wrote:

http://www.bnl.gov/search/results.php
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On 03/12/2014 07:56 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:

"No pages were found containing ""." I think you left something off
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Todd wrote:

Put "global warming" into the seach box and enter.
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On 03/11/2014 11:10 PM, Fran Farmer wrote:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=climate%20scientists%20that%20do%20not%20agree%20with%20global%20warming&kl=us-en
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That's a cite?
I forget, was your statement "a minuscule number of scientists don't agree with global warming"?
Oh, I recognized Freeman Dyson, so I looked him up:
Dyson agrees that anthropogenic global warming exists, and has written that "[one] of the main causes of warming is the increase of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere resulting from our burning of fossil fuels such as oil and coal and natural gas."[41] However, he believes that existing simulation models of climate fail to account for some important factors, and hence the results will contain too much error to reliably predict future trends:
Geez, research my a**.
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On 03/12/2014 09:57 AM, Dan.Espen wrote:

Dan,
There were a lot of hits for you to choose from. Stop looking at Global Warming as an Axiom. Look at it from a scientific standpoint. Question everything.
Here is John Coleman (founder of the cable TV's Weather Channel):
http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog/comments_about_global_warming/
"It is the greatest scam in history. I am amazed, appalled and highly offended by it. Global Warming; It is a SCAM. Some dastardly scientists with environmental and political motives manipulated long term scientific data to create an illusion of rapid global warming. Other scientists of the same environmental whacko type jumped into the circle to support and broaden the “research” to further enhance the totally slanted, bogus global warming claims. Their friends in government steered huge research grants their way to keep the movement going. Soon they claimed to be a consensus.
And John Coleman is not along.
And while your are questioning authority: follow the money. What do you think caused all the fraud I noted earlier: lots of money for research grants.
If you don't start questioning, if you every get high cholesterol or Diabetes, you are going to be in real trouble.
-T
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On 03/12/2014 10:19 AM, Todd wrote:

should have been "alone"
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You keep sinking lower and lower. You think this clowns journalism degree makes him a qualified scientist?

Sorry, but this is just idiotic.
Follow the money indeed. These scientists are forced to do peer reviewed science. The oil companies? Not so much.
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On 03/12/2014 10:32 AM, Dan.Espen wrote:

You mean the "Clown" who is very, very well versed in meteorology?
And only if you accept Global Warming as an Axiom. Everyone that disagrees with your religious belief is a "Clown".
"sinking lower and lower" means you go for character assassination rather than debating merits. Again, an offended religious belief. Smear, rather than debate.

And refuse to accept dissenting opinions: red flag, red flag

Yes, indeed. Include any source of free money to prove a pet theory. Oil companies, Big government research grants, big Ag, big pharma, yada, yada. Especially big government.
Learn to question
-T
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On 13/03/2014 3:36 AM, Todd wrote:

LOL. I asked that you provide a cite to support your claim that a lot of climate scientists DON'T agree on global warming. You can't have even bothered to look at what came up or you'd have realised that that sitelists lots of cites which kills your claim stone dead.
I'm not going to read anything else you post from now on as you have simply got to be trolling.
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