,,,and the rains came...

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Holy c**p.
You write like you've never been to a city. Just one of those 30 story high rises would produce so many buckets of crap, you might die in the lobby from the smell. When you have mile after mile of people living right on top of each other, emptying those buckets would be something to see. Smelling it? No thanks.
Ever walk in Manhattan? The sidewalks regularly fill up with people and you're forced to walk in the street too. That's without brigades of people carrying buckets.

Power out in a city for few weeks? Say what?
The bottom line is, if you live in civilization you get the benefits of civilization. You build a sewage treatment system and the poop gets taken care of.
Basically the same thing as composting but on a different scale.
--
Dan Espen

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I give up, you aren't worth talking to when you get like this.
D
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David Hare-Scott wrote:

thanks for the laugh. and yes, i make sure the horse is well flogged into oblivion at times.
songbird
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On 03/14/2014 07:15 AM, songbird wrote:

I don't get it? What is wrong with "flogged into oblivion at times"? I never seen you do it. Never done it myself either!
:-)
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On 03/11/2014 12:06 PM, songbird wrote:

Hi Songbird,
Has any of this been looked at for the space program. I am wondering how Moon and Mars colonies will handle their human waste? I have heard a lot about hydroponic gardening, etc., but is things break down, and they certainly will, it could be a long time coming for a supply ship.
The space program would certainly iron out all the details, or their colonists would certainly perish. What they learn would help the rest of us earthbound.
-T
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Um, obviously the same as on this space rock.
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On 03/14/2014 06:13 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:

Hi Brooklyn1,
This rock has stuff here that a lot we don't even know about. On Mars, we will have to bring EVERYTHING. We will not even be able to touch the soil (sulphuric acid) not to mention grow anything in it. And this rock has all kinds of interdependent bacterial relationships we would not hope to be able to reproduce in space. Life on Mars will give new meaning to the term living in a bubble. Why anyone would want to live there, but some do.
And on what was said about big cities, I have heard that visitors to New York City are shocked by the smell. I can't imagine all those people crammed into such a small area all turning on their bathroom fans at once, not to mention the gases created by normal digestion. Some, well, a lot, of people like to live that way.
-T
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On Friday, February 28, 2014 10:26:56 PM UTC-8, songbird wrote:

(removed by previous poster: detail of working scalable desalination in th e one democracy in the Middle East)

your

Songie, before you gallop away on your apocalyptic anti-nuclear horse, allo w this "idiot" to point out that "Manhattan Project" only referred to a nat ional effort -- in WW II, to create an atomic bomb. Not something this "id iot" approved of, much less appreciated incinerating two cities full of civ ilians.
I have seen several films, both American and Japanese, which documented in chilling detail the utter chaos -- political and military -- that reigned inside the Japanese Government after Hiroshima and before Nagasaki. It is useful to make some effort to acquaint oneself with the FACTS.
The US was not only ignorant of the situation inside Japan, but didn't cond escend to investigate it. We only blindly insisted on the military mantra of "unconditional surrender". If our ultimatum had been couched with SOME understanding of what was going on -- don't tell me sources weren't availab le!! -- like not humiliating their Emperor-God -- hundreds of thousands mor e lives could have been spared, not to mention future generations affected by radiation.
As we know, after surrender, the U.S. turned over Japan to big business, wh ich basically ran the country until some stirrings of democracy began to be felt.
How many are aware that dropping the bombs had little to do with forestalli ng a putative land invasion of Japan? They were on their asses already; no fuel, no food, no nuthin'. Ththere would have been relatively little resi stance even by suicide, once the Emperor said give up.
Our GIs were told that dropping the bomb saved them from heavy casualties i n a putative invasion. If I'd been a grunt at that time, believe me, I wou ld have believed it!
What they, and the American people, were never told was that the bomb was r ushed into production to hasten surrender before the Soviet Union could tak e part in the fighting, per their wartime agreement with the Allies. The l ast thing the US wanted was them Commie pinkos getting their toes into Japa n -- or anywhere else. Never mind a few million "Japs" getting toasted, be tween the Tokyo firebombing (see also Dresden) and nuking Hiroshima and Nag asaki.
Years ago, I made a pilgrimage to Hiroshima to bow at the memorial of those innocents killed at 8:15 a.m.,just as the streets were full of children on their way to school.
Boys with their toys...
The point made by this "idiot" is that a full-scale national effort was beh ind the Bomb.
A similar full-scale effort to investigate and perfect scalable desalinizat ion is not only do-able, but of the utmost urgency.
HB (aka "the idiot" [...]
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On 03/01/2014 11:25 AM, Higgs Boson wrote:

Hi Higgs,
My late mother-in-law worked on the Manhattan project. Everyone on that project was HORRIFIED with what they were about to do. And, if anyone tells you they were not aware of the situation in Japan, they are lying to you. The decision was made based on the Japanese military arming the civilian population -- women, children -- with wooden knives to fight us hand to hand. They were not going to give up. And it took two bombs, not one, before they did.
And the death count from those two bombs was actually lower than the death count from our fire bomb attacks, which suffocated thousands.
Have you read the prisoner counts from those islands we invaded in the Pacific? 10, 14? We had to run soldiers over who where out of ammunition with our tanks. They were fighting us with their hands. This was the Japan we were about to invade.
A lot of people hate America. They spread a lot of b--- s--- around about us. We are not with out our problems. What makes us different is that we do work on them.
-T
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On Saturday, March 1, 2014 11:04:05 PM UTC-8, Todd wrote:

alling a putative land invasion of Japan? They were on their asses already ; no fuel, no food, no nuthin'. Ththere would have been relatively little resistance even by suicide, once the Emperor said give up.

es in a putative invasion. If I'd been a grunt at that time, believe me, I would have believed it!

Todd, you have either not read my post carefully or not understood it.
The Japanese people were so totally brainwashed by generations of Emperor w orship that they would instantly do whatever he ordered. I referred to the chaotic situation within the Japanese government and military;perhaps you are not familiar with that, though there are several excellent sources for verification.
So I am not going through the whole argument again; I ask you just to read again and try to understand why, strictly speaking, neither bomb was necess ary to end the war. A demonstration on a deserted island, properly announc ed in advance to the Japanese govt, would have been convincing. But the Am ericans were afraid it might not work (even after Trinity) so chose the mas s incineration path.
To my knowledge, NO effective contact was made with the Japanese government before the 2nd bomb was dropped. Not to repeat again my informed comments about the chaos within the govt and the US ineptitude about discerning that chaos.
Of course there may have been reasons too horrible to envision for dropping two different kinds of bombs. Which kinda knocks out the argument against trying one out on a deserted island first. So the DID have another in res erve! This stinks louder & louder.
Boys with their toys...
HB

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On 3/03/2014 1:23 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

The report of the first journo into Hiroshima is chilling reading. That journo was Wilfred Burchett, and Australian who was a communist sympathiser who has been much reviled.
http://assets.cambridge.org/97805217/18264/excerpt/9780521718264_excerpt.pdf
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On 03/02/2014 06:23 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

Seems I am missing a lot lately. Please excuse me if I misunderstood you. I will reread you in a little bit.
Do you really, really, really, really think the Japanese intelligence service was SSSSSSOOOOOO bad that they missed the bombs we blew up in our own desert? That is an extreme stretch!
The Military ran the show, not the emperor. He was the one that finally stepped in and, at risk of his own neck, overruled the military. The Japanese were MONSTERS Why was it you think the emperor was not up on war crimes: He was a figure head.
And, the Japanese were also working on a nuclear bomb too! So were Europe's merry band of socialist monsters! What do you think the Japanese were going to do with it? Plant flowers on it an sue for peace!
WHAT PUNITIVE LAND INVASION!!! That is anti-American BULL SHIT. They were MONSTERS. THEY WERE WORKING ON THEIR OWN BOMB. NO ONE WANTED THE BLOOD SHED THAT WOULD WOULD HAVE ENSUED FROM A LAND INVASION. WE WERE DESPERATE TO FIN AN ALTERNATIVE. THEY HAD PROVED THAT THIS WOULD BE THE CASE ON ISLAND AFTER ISLAND AND SUICIDE ATTACK AFTER SUICIDE ATTACK!!! WOULD WOULD HAVE HAD TO KILL EVER LOST ONE OF THEM THEN SAME WAY WE DID ON ALL THOSE ISLANDS: WE WOULD HAVE HAD TO BUTCHER THEM LIKE CATTLE! WHAT SCURRILOUS GARBAGE TO SPREAD ABOUT AMERICA!
Even with disarray, they had AMPLY DEMONSTRATED they would NEVER give in.
And they had no problem what-so-ever contacted us after the emperor demanded it. Talk about guts on his part. AND WE WAITED. Source again was my mother-in-law. We were HORRIFIED he had to do it again. To say otherwise is scurrilous slander.
Maybe we should fire bombed ever last square inch of Japan and killed 1000 times more Japanese. How would you have liked to be one of our soldiers would have had to slaughers Japanese children charging them with wooden knives in suicide attacks? Bad enough to have to watch a grown man die in front of you but to butcher children!
We made the best decision. And remember the WORST, MOST IMMORAL DECISION we could have possibly made was to have been soft and lost that war.
It was not the time to be touchy-feely. He had to mount violence to the point that they FINALLY caved it. Thank God for the emperor!
Don't let left over Soviet era propaganda cloud your mind. We did far more horrible things than those bombs. But they could not be used against the Soviets, so no propaganda about far worse things. Only about what could be used against them. And no useful idiots bawling tearing out.
And boy with their toys. Kill someone in front on you and watch them die: you NEVER, NEVER EVER get over it. NO SOLDIER LIKES TO KILL. ONLY PSYCOPATHS LIKE TO KILL! WE OWE OUR SOLDIERS A DEBT THAT CAN NEVER BE REPAID, INCLUDING THOSE THAT MADE AND DROPPED THOSE TWO BOMBS.
Again, I apologize it I misread anything your wrote.
-T

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On 3/1/2014 11:25 AM, Higgs Boson wrote:

I believe the horror caused by the two bombs dropped in Japan (very shortly after my 4th birthday) has prevented any nation from again using any kind of nuclear weapon.
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Climate: California Mediterranean, see
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On Friday, February 28, 2014 4:57:01 PM UTC-8, David Hare-Scott wrote:

Am I naive to speculate that RO won't be the only technology down the pike?
HB
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Higgs Boson wrote:

Probably. It takes energy to get a solute out of a solvent, this is not a question of technology but known science. We know about distilation and RO, and both cost energy. It is usually the problem deniers who assume that unknown science (read magic) or unproven technology ("clean coal") will come to our rescue and thus we ought not to worry.
I suggest that not destroying our sources of water and not using it so carelessly (growing rice in drylands and building golf courses in deserts come to mind) will serve better in the short to medium term. Of course if tomorrow somebody comes up with a way to make large scale atomic fusion efficient and practical I will be made to eat my hat. Since the idea was first shown to be theoretically possible ( say a century ago) a practical solution has always been predicted to be available in "about 30 years". Well the greatgrandchildren of those blokes are still working on it.
D
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On Monday, March 3, 2014 6:59:21 PM UTC-8, David Hare-Scott wrote:

The biggest problem at this point is educating the public. Maybe people are more socially-minded in OZ, but Up Here (US) it is only a minority of the population who are educated and aware enough to take the simple steps that would reduce consumption dramatically.
People who have programmed sprinklers don't take care to adjust when water is not needed. In the middle of our dramatic storm last week, the CITY's sprinklers were still going!
As are those of my neighbor, on automatic. That storm soaked everything so well that no watering would be required for AT LEAST a week; I think more. I know that at least several people including our shared gardener, have mentioned the wasted water, but so far no change...
I'm afraid it will take sky-high water costs -- and they are high anyway -- to make people stop & think. Alas, those high costs hit even the good guys, like yours truly.
HB
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On 03/03/2014 06:59 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:

Not to mention that clean fusion only happens when you fuse plain hydrogen, not heavy hydrogen (deuterium, tritium). The neutron radiation given off by that would sterilize an entire state. But, the researchers have to start somewhere.
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On 03/03/2014 06:59 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:

You don't think it is possible to clean up coal, but drinking toilet water is okay? I suppose we all pick our favorite technologies.
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Todd wrote:

I never said it couldn't be done at all. Every coal-fired power station does some cleaning of its effluent now but this is not CO2.
It is quite possible to clean up effluent from burning coal to the level of removing all (or nearly all) the CO2 as well, this has been done in demonstration plants. What the coal industry, who claim that it will save us from climate change, have yet to do is show how it can be done on a large scale and what it would cost at that scale. Despite millions being sunk into it the technology is unproven at the scale that would be required to allow coal burning not to be the major contributor to greenhouse gas production that it is today.
I suspect that the cost might be so high that it would make other energy sources much more attractive and this is what the coal industry is worried about. But until they actually do it we don't know.
David
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On 03/05/2014 02:24 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:

David,
Everything we burn, hydrogen being the exception, creates CO2. And water vapor too, by the way.
CO2 is not an issue. Global warming is a hoax. The earth, according to satellite imagery of average ocean temperatures, is cooling. If the hoaxers had any science at all, they would present it and have open debate, instead of pitching it as a religious belief that NO ONE DARE QUESTION. (What do the hoaxers call the scientific community: "deniers"?) They also would not have to cheat on the data they present.
CO2 is only a tiny percentage of our atmosphere and man addition to it is minuscule. Ice core samples have also show that CO2 increases always happen after a warming cycle, not before. And, when CO2 increases, so does plant life. Nature balances itself.
As for "Greenhouse" gases, water vapor is the king. But the hoaxers can't get rich off of that one, so they go after what they can make money off. So next time CO2 gets mentioned, reach down, grab your ankles, and kiss your freedom goodbye. Global warming is a hoax.
-T
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