And some people say there's no God..........

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On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 14:55:21 -0400, "Victor Faraday"

Bullshit.
More lies and bullshit.
I thought you christbots had rules against "bearing false witness"?
--
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On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 14:55:21 -0400, Victor Faraday wrote:

The most accomplished scientists tend to be less religious than "average" scientists, who are, in turn, less religious than non-scientists.

No, actually, imagining a Designer with inscrutable, magical properties is a lame way to "explain" something that is difficult to explain otherwise. We are all still waiting for an explanation of the Designer. Scientists like finding explanations; non-scientists, particularly theists, like things to have explanations. If there are no *good* explanations, a poor one will do.
--
MarkA
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The god believers claim that god created the world and everything in it. He is all loving, all caring and all powerful creator of man in his image.
Because the world is so magnificent and complex it had to have a creator. By this same logic, god has to be even more powerful and complex and would have to have a creator. Complexity in no way is proof or evidence of a god creator.
Supposedly man after he dies lives on in gods eternal heaven in eternal happiness.
If this is true, why did he create sin and punishment on Earth? Why did he create Hell? Why not create a world with men that are motivated to be all caring and loving beings, just like him, with no desire to be selfish, greedy and mean?
Religious fanatics claim that man has chosen to be evil because of his free will. This is totally specious. Free will does no imply or require evil conduct.
free will n. 1. The ability or discretion to choose; free choice: chose to remain behind of my own free will. 2. The power, attributed especially to human beings, of making free choices that are unconstrained by external circumstances or by an agency such as fate or divine will.
A good benevolent god could have created man as a loving caring creature with free will but without any desire or ability to commit evil.
He already created other limitations on mans free will.
He created hunger pains to force man to eat and drink? He created suffocation panic to force man to breathe? And a powerful sex drive to force man to procreate? (Frequently in excess of mans ability to feed and care for his creations!)
Then why create greed and selfishness which encourages man to steel, lie, subjugate and even kill other men?
This is supposedly to keep man in line and force him to follow gods wishes and commands. This is characteristic of a dictator and slave master not the characteristics of an all loving and caring god.
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Wars, Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and serious body malfunctions? Why does he permit millions of both young and old to starve to death or die of miserable diseases? Why punish millions of INNOCENT CHILDREN in this horrible way?
There is a parasitic worm in West Africa that bores through the eyes of children and causes total blindness for the rest of their lives. This is the work of an all caring and loving god???
Why does this all powerful and caring god permit totally innocent children to die at birth? Or worse, be born lacking eyesight, a fully developed brain, deaf and dumb, missing limbs etc.? Why are some born idiots and others with super intelligence? Why are some born into wealth and others pauper poor? Why are his human creations designed to deteriorate into a miserable and devastating old age?
Why did this all powerful and loving creator create things like sharks, jelly fish, octopus, lions, tigers, rhinoceros, poisonous snakes, stinging and poisonous insects, poisonous plants etc.? Why did this caring benevolent god create animals (including man) that need to painfully kill and eat other animals to survive?
World War I claimed 9,000,000 lives of people of many religious faiths.
World II indiscriminately claimed over 20,000,000 lives of people of all ages and religious faiths, plus a vast destruction of property and more millions maimed for life.
The recent Asian Tsunami has claimed the lives of 250,000 men, women and children of all religious persuasions. Over 100,000 of these were totally innocent children!
There were three major epidemics of the Bubonic Plaque - in the 6th, 14th. and 17th centuries. The death toll was over 137 million men, women and totally innocent children.
The influenza of 1918-1919 killed at least 25 million men, women and innocent children indiscriminately.
Diseases like malaria, AIDS, tuberculosis, etc. maim and kill millions indiscriminately every year. More millions die of starvation and malnutrition.
These afflicted the young and old, atheists and those of all religious persuasions.
Meanwhile MAN, not god, has developed defenses and cures for hundreds of serious diseases. Man has learned to create shelter, heat and cooling, purify water, world wide electronic communications, power and transportation systems including flying through the air.
Perhaps your loving and caring god is actually a cruel, heartless, mean and torturing tyrant. If he treats us so cruelly during life, why do you think he will let us enjoy peace and happiness eternally in his Heaven after death? And why does he keep all this a secret by preventing communication with our dead parents, siblings and friends?
If there is a god that created the Universe, he is obviously not an all-caring and benevolent god. Nor is he an Intelligent Designer. The objective evidence is that, if there is a god creator, he has NO concern about the welfare of the creatures on Earth.
The objective evidence is that no god created man but quite the opposite; that man created gods!
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<snip>

That used to be right above the orbit of Saturn, in the so-called 7th heaven. Through space exploration, we now know that there's no god or souls floating around up there above Saturn, so the whole idea of heaven should be discarded as an ancient fantasy and false science, don't you think?

Why create two sexes and a predatory food chain as well?
A race of non-sexual solar-powered beings that didn't have to eat anything but sunlight would seem to make more sense to me.
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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Dan J.S. wrote:

Does he follow a specific creed, or does he believe more in something like Spinoza's god?

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wrote:

I do not mean to offend any Christians, but I am a Buddhist practitioner and as a Buddhist I do not believe in god. There is no creator in Buddhism. Everything derives from the last moment of itself, moment by moment.
If there was a creator, it would be ourselves. Our parents don't create us, they give us our bodies, but the mind moves in and out of vessels when the bodies they occupy die. In Buddhism, everybody dies, but nobody is dead.
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Dan J.S. wrote:
<snip argumentum aracnophilia>

Then... he fell on his head?

Sorry for his loss.

Yes it is.
Mark.
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Lovely story
Now, where's the god?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
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Weren't you reading closely? Try again:
So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of
Yahweh wuz here! Rock 'n roll 4ever! 2006
sand, and likely less than a year old, building something any civil engineer would show with great pride.
--
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Brian E. Clark
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Robibnikoff said...

Bwahaha! :)
--
Robyn
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Posted to: alt.atheism, alt.religion.christian, rec.gardens
<singing> One of these things is not like the others....
655321
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oh please, that's not evidence of god, but show me a water stain in the shape of the virgin mary, or jesus's likeness on a slice of bread, now there's a real honest to goodness all-powerful sky pixie for you.
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Careful, or you will have Virgil and Sniper and friends on your case for showing too much sarcasm towards their hypothetical ('might be') sky pixie.
Now we've got Free Lunch joining them in arguing _ad ignorantiam_ that there might be a god because there is no proof the hypothesis (the 'might be' theist conjecture) is false, then denying that is what he is arguing! Go figure.
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As "sky pixies" are entirely an invention of Soppy Septic, he, as their sole inventor, would be the only one to complain about other's use of them.
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SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim wrote:

All that so the spider can kill and eat things. I wonder how the moth feels about it. And just think, 6000 years ago, when there was no death, the spider used to catch flying grapes in the web.
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Victor Faraday wrote:

Well... the design is probably 400 million years old and took tens of millions of generations of spiders to perfect - but yeah its still cool.

So about the same as a fundamentalist christian then?

So... Spider webs are cool therefore... Yahweh exists?
Brilliant!! Ok - I am convinced - I renonce my evil atheist ways - Halleluya!
Mark.
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On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:33:58 -0400, Victor Faraday wrote:

Wrong. It was just _built_ in less than three hours. It wasn't "designed" at all. That organism was executing a biological program originating in a combination of its genetic heritage and environmental influences. Cool, huh?
Now, why the _fuck_ did you crosspost this to alt.atheism?
--
Frank Mayhar snipped-for-privacy@exit.com http://www.exit.com /
Exit Consulting http://www.gpsclock.com /
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On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 08:33:58 -0400, "Victor Faraday"

1. You saw something awesome. 2. You cannot personally understand it. 3. Therefore there is an invisible old man in the sky.
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On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 11:36:03 +0930, Michael Gray

Push to shove, whatever enriches someone's spirituality or kindness or consciousness is a good thing. I don't believe in a creator, but I have no problem with those who do. And orb spiders are indeed awesome. I don't believe a god created them, but if someone else does and it touches their heart making them a better person, it's great. Don't you think?
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Jangchub wrote:

Do you still say that when they fly planes into buildings?
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