zuke question

Hi All,
Two of my numerous zuke plants have very short stems and small crinkly leaves. They are not growing much either. There is no sign of squash bug activity.
This happens to at least one of my zuke plants every year. Usually the one will start out normal, then lose its large leaves and get these small crinkly ones. This time the two started out that way.
Is this some kid of mite infection?
Would soapy water help?
Should I pull them out to keep any infestation from spreading? Or leave them in, so the infectors will stay with the one plant?
Any words of wisdom?
Many thanks, -T
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T wrote:

sometimes in seeds there will be a few of a slightly different strain to help with cross- pollination.
i don't know if this is the case with yours or not. this is what comes to mind. :)
songbird
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On 07/18/2016 09:12 PM, songbird wrote:

I have noticed that. I think one turned out to be a black zucchini last year. Still tasted good.
So maybe it is just a weird hybrid / cross breed.
Hmmm. I still have a few seedlings I haven't planted. I am thinking of pulling the weird ones out.
How would I rule out mites?
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On 07/18/2016 09:12 PM, songbird wrote:

You know what, the same thing happened to a big healthy plant last year. All the big leaves fell off and I got a stunted plant with stunted, shriveled up leaves
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T wrote:

ok, pull it out and plant something else there if you have the time.
capilary collapse?
(too hot and not enough water at the roots) i recall your soil may not be particularly deep and the weather pretty hot. some kind of wind break may help moderate evaporative losses from leaves.
for us we get the plants growing really well and then some leaves get powdery mildew and then the plant comes back and puts on new leaves again.
i don't fight it or spray, what happens is pretty much ok with me. life, nature, i try to work with it instead of fighting. :)
dunno about mites. there are so many different kinds, most harmless, some predatory on other mites, etc.
songbird
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On 07/19/2016 03:37 AM, songbird wrote:

Last year, that is what happened to one of my plants. Big beautiful pant. It got the powdery milden (I have copper spray for that this year), the leaves dies off, and new growth came back. The new growth came back with small shriveled leaves as described. The plant never did recover.
I will extra water in case the plant is suffering from too litter water and too much heat.
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On 07/19/2016 01:20 PM, T wrote:

Hi Songbird,
I was looking at the leaves real close and they are suffering from the start of the accursed power mildew. So I soaked the plant yesterday in copper spray.
Today, it looks like it has 50% more foliage and is responding to all the tender love and care its been getting. So things are looking up for the guy. Will know for sure in a couple of days.
That would make sense. Last year as I recounted, the power milden nailed one of my pants real bad and the leave did the same, crinkly thing.
On the other hand, I have one zuke that I transplanted from the sprouting cups that has two little round leaves on it the size of a quarter. Hasn't grown in two months. Then again, it hasn't died either. Maybe I will get some rice sized zukes off it!
-T
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On 07/19/2016 01:20 PM, T wrote:

Hi Songbird,
I was looking at the leaves real close and they are suffering from the start of the accursed power mildew. So I soaked the plant yesterday in copper spray.
Today, it looks like it has 50% more foliage and is responding to all the tender love and care its been getting. So things are looking up for the guy. Will know for sure in a couple of days.
That would make sense. Last year as I recounted, the power milden nailed one of my pants real bad and the leave did the same, crinkly thing.
On the other hand, I have one zuke that I transplanted from the sprouting cups that has two little round leaves on it the size of a quarter. Hasn't grown in two months. Then again, it hasn't died either. Maybe I will get some rice sized zukes off it!
-T
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T wrote: ...

have you looked up the milk spray. i would not use copper regularly. people may say it is organic, but i think it poisons other creatures too much and is accumulative.
songbird
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On 07/23/2016 05:38 AM, songbird wrote:

Got a link to it?
The size of the plant is now about 50% larger.
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T wrote:

google them and read away. i would always try the least toxic options first.
i did try a bordeau mix on my grape vine to control black rot, but decided that it wasn't worth the bother and took the vine out instead. sometimes you just pick wiser battles.
songbird
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On 07/24/2016 12:48 AM, songbird wrote:

Hi Songbird,
I tried Neem oil on them two years in a row. Completely worthless.
-T
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T wrote: ...

Neem oil i've only recall being used as an insecticide, i've never used it myself nor read up on it to know...
we have too many surrounding host plants for powdery mildew that it makes no sense at all for me to spray for it or care much. we have some plants which get some damage from it, but not enough that i care to fight.
the weak milk solution is one that i've heard can help, but only indirectly.
instead of fighting with chemicals and single solutions if i were going to do any sort of spraying it would look into brewing my own microbial teas and use those instead. i think a broad mix of bacterial species would be much more effective at giving a plant protection.
i've done a fair bit of reading on how various fungi attack plants. certain leaf surface shapes seem to make it easier and that shape can be changed by the presence of bacteria.
the only problem is that such things can also backfire and you get a separate infection to deal with which can be just as bad or worse than the powdery mildew.
ah, well, good luck, i just keep it simple here.
songbird
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On 07/24/2016 05:34 AM, songbird wrote:

That is probably a tremendous idea. Problem: sometimes you forget just what order of magnitude your skills are above mine. Maybe 1000 to 1. This idea is so, so WAY OVER MY HEAD! Maybe in 30 years, if I should live that long, I will catch up to where you are today (not where you will be in 30 years).
:-)

This is the guy I am using:
http://www.bonide.com/products/disease-control/view/775/copper-fungicide-rtu
http://www.bonide.com/assets/Products/Labels/l775.pdf
The part that got my attention, besides someone on this group recommending it, was:
"for organic production"
-T
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T wrote: ...

ok, here it is, simple, you have your special fertilizer you've been using which is from an organic supplier.
equipment: bucket, aquarium air pump, hose, air stone, cheese cloth.
ingredients: water, compost.
method: turn on air pump, add compost to water, let it brew for a while, strain through cheese cloth, use on a few plants, see if it works. brew time a few days to a week. some people add other stuff to the mix like a little molasses, grass or alfalfa, etc.
as air pumps are very inexpensive along with the rest of the stuff this is something that can be tried without risking major expense even if it doesn't work.
songbird
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On 07/25/2016 12:45 PM, songbird wrote:

Fascinating. Thank you!
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