to stir up the pot

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/09/24/bad-science-on-gmos-it-reminds-me-of-the-antivaccine-movement /
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On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 6:24:27 AM UTC-6, Frank wrote:

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/09/24/bad-science-on-gmos-it-reminds-me-of-the-antivaccine-movement /
Yep, good post. I'm not a Monsanto fan but some of the critics are way, way off the mark.
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Typical reading material for Frank's pro-profit / anti-environmental, "don't bother me with the facts" proclivities.
With gratuitous posturing, sarcasm, and ad hominem attacks, the blog criticizes a study, by Sralini et al, but doesn't refuted it.
"The health effects of a Roundup-tolerant genetically modified maize (from 11% in the diet), cultivated with or without Roundup, and Roundup alone (from 0.1 ppb in water), were studied 2 years in rats. In females, all treated groups died 23 times more than controls, and more rapidly. This difference was visible in 3 male groups fed GMOs. All results were hormone and sex dependent, and the pathological profiles were comparable. Females developed large mammary tumors almost always more often than and before controls, the pituitary was the second most disabled organ; the sex hormonal balance was modified by GMO and Roundup treatments. In treated males, liver congestions and necrosis were 2.55.5 times higher. This pathology was confirmed by optic and transmission electron microscopy. Marked and severe kidney nephropathies were also generally 1.32.3 greater. Males presented 4 times more large palpable tumors than controls which occurred up to 600 days earlier. Biochemistry data confirmed very significant kidney chronic deficiencies; for all treatments and both sexes, 76% of the altered parameters were kidney related.
These results can be explained
by the non linear endocrine-disrupting effects of Roundup,
but also
by the overexpression of the transgene in the GMO and its metabolic consequences. "
<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278691512005637 ------
Mon$anto products converging to produce an apparent, toxic synergy in our food supply.
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wrote:

Again Faith based arguments about faith based science. Billy if you knew what these sentences say, you would know how dumb the arguments are. First, neither this paper nor any other of which I am aware have established a "non linear endocrine-disrupting effects of Roundup". Glyohosate does not do this.

The transgene is a gene that makes a protein. With very rae and known exceptions, (prions) proteins are just food. This protein does not alter metabolism. It replaces a soybean protein that alters matabolism which is inhibited by glyphosate. Your god isn't dead, it was never alive. Please post about what you know, that should eliminate about 90% of the BS.
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You sure you wouldn't be more comfortable over in one of the political newsgroups, where flame wars are accepted?
It isn't my study, but it passed peer review. I accepted the criticism offered of the study, because I have no idea how the study was conducted.
Here is the abstract,
<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278691512005637
Food and Chemical Toxicology Available online 19 September 2012 Long term toxicity of a Roundup herbicide and a Roundup-tolerant genetically modified maize ?    Gilles-Eric Seralinia, , , ?    Emilie Claira, ?    Robin Mesnagea, ?    Steeve Gressa, ?    Nicolas Defargea, ?    Manuela Malatestab, ?    Didier Hennequinc, ?    Joel Spiroux de Vendomoisa ?    a University of Caen, Institute of Biology, CRIIGEN and Risk Pole, MRSH-CNRS, EA 2608, Esplanade de la Paix, Caen Cedex 14032, France ?    b University of Verona, Department of Neurological, Neuropsychological, Morphological and Motor Sciences, Verona 37134, Italy ?    c University of Caen, UR ABTE, EA 4651, Bd Marechal Juin, Caen Cedex 14032, France ?    http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.fct.2012.08.005 , How to Cite or Link Using DOI
Abstract The health effects of a Roundup-tolerant genetically modified maize (from 11% in the diet), cultivated with or without Roundup, and Roundup alone (from 0.1 ppb in water), were studied 2 years in rats. In females, all treated groups died 2-3 times more than controls, and more rapidly. This difference was visible in 3 male groups fed GMOs. All results were hormone and sex dependent, and the pathological profiles were comparable. Females developed large mammary tumors almost always more often than and before controls, the pituitary was the second most disabled organ; the sex hormonal balance was modified by GMO and Roundup treatments. In treated males, liver congestions and necrosis were 2.5-5.5 times higher. This pathology was confirmed by optic and transmission electron microscopy. Marked and severe kidney nephropathies were also generally 1.3-2.3 greater. Males presented 4 times more large palpable tumors than controls which occurred up to 600 days earlier. Biochemistry data confirmed very significant kidney chronic deficiencies; for all treatments and both sexes, 76% of the altered parameters were kidney related. These results can be explained by the non linear endocrine-disrupting effects of Roundup, but also by the overexpression of the transgene in the GMO and its metabolic consequences.
Highlights A Roundup-tolerant maize and Roundup provoked chronic hormone and sex dependent pathologies. ? Female mortality was 2-3 times increased mostly due to large mammary tumors and disabled pituitary. ? Males had liver congestions, necrosis, severe kidney nephropathies and large palpable tumors. ? This may be due to an endocrine disruption linked to Roundup and a new metabolism due to the transgene. ? GMOs and formulated pesticides must be evaluated by long term studies to measure toxic effects..
Abbreviations ?    GM, genetically modified; ?    R, Roundup; ?    MRL, maximal residual levels; ?    GMO, genetically modified organism; ?    OECD, Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development; ?    GT, glutamyl-transferase; ?    PCA, principal component analysis; ?    PLS, partial least-squares; ?    OPLS, orthogonal partial least-squares; ?    NIPALS, Nonlinear Iterative Partial Least Squares; ?    OPLS-DA, Orthogonal Partial Least Squares Discriminant Analysis; ?    G, glycogen; ?    L, lipid droplet; ?    N, nucleus; ?    R, rough endoplasmic reticulum (on microscopy pictures only); ?    U, urinary; ?    UEx, excreted in urine during 24 h; ?    APPT, Activated Partial Thromboplastin Time; ?    MCV, Mean Corpuscular Volume; ?    PT, Prothrombine Time; ?    RBC, Red Blood Cells; ?    ALT, alanine aminotransferase; ?    MCHC, Mean Corpuscular Hemoglobin Concentration; ?    A/G, Albumin/Globulin ratio; ?    WBC, White Blood Cells; ?    AST, aspartate aminotransferase Keywords ?    GMO; ?    Roundup; ?    NK603; ?    Rat; ?    Glyphosate-based herbicides; ?    Endocrine disrupting effects
--------
You will note, Rick, that the abstract ends with: These results can be explained
by the non linear endocrine-disrupting effects of Roundup,
but also
by the overexpression of the transgene in the GMO and its metabolic consequences.
--

Nothing was mentioned about prions, or "mad cows"
-----

I know about the pathway that glyphosate is supposed to follow, but
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On 9/26/2012 2:42 PM, Billy wrote:

I know as a chemist, you are scared to death of chemicals. I figure out in the land of the fruits and the nuts you must have worked for the government.
But, that aside, I had posted the paper in sci.chem for comment where you probably saw it and ignored it but this source came from the responses I got there.
Did you actually read it? It points out fallacies most glaring was small size of a control group with rats bred to die of cancer. I'm not a toxicologist or statistician and neither are you.
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Frank said:

reminds-me-of-the-antivaccine-movement/>
Thanks for the link. Science-by-press-release at its <sarcasm>finest</sarcasm>.**
<quote>There might be valid reasons to be wary of the proliferation of GMO-based foods, such as concern over the control that large multinational corporations like Monsanto might exercise over the food supply, but the studies purporting to find horrific dangers of GMO-based food strike me as having the methodological rigor of a typical Andrew Wakefield or Mark Geier study. Perhaps thats why I wasnt too surprised when one of my readers pointed out that one of the authors of the study is also a homeopath and acupuncturist; so maybe the better comparison to make to this paper would be papers by homeopaths trying to show that homeopathy works. Either way, this is bad, bad science, and its sad to see how many people who should know better (but apparently do not) lap it up so credulously while applying much greater skepticism to science that doesnt damn GMOs as pure poison.</quote>
Yes, it's deja-vu all over again, the comparison to anti-vaxxers rings true and the homeopathy connection is just icing on the cake.
**the online world needs a sarcasm font
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