Source needed for Arizona grape vines (Vitis arizonica)


I'm helping some friends put in a small vineyard, and I thought a few Arizona grape vines would be a nice addition to the mix. However, I'm unable to find a source for these vines. In fact, most of the people I've spoken with at local (Phoenix, AZ) nurseries have never even heard of such a grape.
Anyone know of a source for these vines? I'm quite willing to start the vines from seeds if that's my only option.
Thanks,
Greg G.
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snipped-for-privacy@testengineering.info wrote:

I've been trying to find them for some months now - without luck. If you find a source and can share, would sure appreciate the info. Karen
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nonnymoose wrote:

I finally found a nursery in Payson, Arizona that has them. I'm not sure where you are located or if a drive to Payson is an option, but the nursery is "Plant Fair Nursery, Inc.". They are listed in the phone directory.
If that's not an option and you are extremely patient, I could send you a few seeds in 2 or 3 years :-)
Greg G.
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snipped-for-privacy@testengineering.info wrote:

Well done! It's too long a drive (I'm outside Oatman) but I might try to contact them and see if they'll ship. Obviously I'm not patient enough to wait for your kind seed offer! :-) Many thanks. Karen
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Guys, grapes don't come true from seeds. You need cuttings. Wine grapes need to attain at least 21% sugar unless you are planing on making sparkling wine, where you only need 16% to 17% sugar in the juice. Before you run out and plant a few acres, you may want to run this idea by an agriculture advisor. Good luck:-) - Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum
snipped-for-privacy@testengineering.info wrote:

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wrote:

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Bill Rose wrote:

Really? Amazing that somehow grape vines survived and evolved for many millennia without any human intervention. Grape vines can be started from seed... in fact, some grape varieties are difficult to start from cuttings and must be started from seeds. But I guess I must be wrong, because as the self-appointed grape vine expert, you are taking the time to correct me in my error.
I wish you would have shared your insight with the nursery I bought the vine from, as it certainly is not grafted and appears to have been started from seed. Had they known this was impossible, I'm sure they wouldn't have tried it.
Thanks and regards,
Greg G.
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snipped-for-privacy@testengineering.info wrote:

Oh my, what to do? This could be a lot of fun but I'm still tired from the harvest, and besides I have some bose-einstein condensate on the stove.
The postulated proposition (and supported by a multi-billion dollar American wine industry [for those of you interested in fact based reality]) is "grapes don't come true from seeds".
Now let me direct your attention to the word "true" in the last sentence. True, as in conforming to a type, standard, or pattern. If you are indifferent to the character of your vine, then by all means, propagate your vine from seeds. European varietals were arrived at in this fashion. There was a great hodge poge of them until the end of the nineteenth century when American tourists, mildew and phylloxera, decimated European vineyards. When the vines were re-established, only the best vines were kept, in order to raise the over all quality of the resulting wines. If you plant Cabernet Sauvignon seeds (for example), you will get grape vines alright but probably not ones that look or taste like its' parent (monecious little buggers). So if any ol' n'import quoi of a vine will do, then go for it. Plant seeds.
My memory, ever imperfect and constantly humiliating me, recalled that the endeavor in question was the planting of a native American vineyard, along the lines of planting Concord or Catawba. If these are to be solely ornamental, go for it. Be sure to water them for the first five years, after that, if there is any ground water, the roots will find it.
However, if the vines are a culinary effort, get cuttings and the vines will come true.
Greg G., you come across a little edgy. Are you getting enough fiber?
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Bill Rose wrote:

The subject of this thread is Vitis arizonica, not Pinot Noir. Define "true" in the context of the lowly Arizona grape. There is absolutely no reason to constrain oneself to propogating cuttings of this plant. Seeds should be fine.

Sorry if I seem edgy, I just get a little bent of out shape when self appointed experts like yourself jump in with advice that is neither relevant nor helpful.
Regards,
Greg G.
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snipped-for-privacy@testengineering.info wrote:

Greg, I do not consider myself an expert on anything, except what I like. I was just trying to be helpful. I think I explained my reasoning. You want seeds? Let there be seeds.
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum.
-Bill
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=========================Hey Greg,
Canyon Grape, Vitis arizonica, is a wild grape that grows in canyons and riparian areas in our AZ mid elevation deserts around the Verde valley. You might try a nursery in Cottonwood or Clarkdale or maybe Sedona. Or try Watters nursery in Prescott. But I suspect you may have hike the canyons in April or May when it's green and blooming - see photo at http://www.fireflyforest.com/flowers/other-plants/plant22.html
Olin
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replying to Olin, Moises Gallardo wrote:

Hi there, I have several Vitis Arizonica plants in my backyard. They grow wild and need heavy prunning to keep them under control. I wish I could ship some plants or cuttings to you but the stringent Agricultural regulations of Arizona won't allow me to do so. However I can share some seeds from last year (2014)should you still be interested.
Let me know if I could be of any assitance in your project.
Moises Gallardo
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